Hello,
I talked to the guys from x-runner, they mentioned another mobile approach
loowatt!!

Have a look. It is interesting as well. A little futuristic but why not?
Th box might be interesting for the Terra Preta people as they say that the box is odour free (so air tight).

So up to now 4 ideas. Somewhat different, somewhat similar. Very interesting.
Yours
Christoph

Dear Guy and Ric,
Thank you for the very useful information.

Concerning the Wash Team Project who will eventually pay for the treatment and disposal costs if that is not covered by the rental fees? Is the rental fee also covering the production costs of the toilet itself?

Otherwise it is a valid point to focus on the least or moderate poor with a certain purchase power in order to put the business on a solid foundation. Sometimes it is even surprising that the poorest of the poor have mobile phones and some money to spend. So it might not be surprising that the aspiration for such a modern sanitation service will drive the poorest at some point to pay for such services. The collaboration with Unilever also seems quite crucial to generate additional income for the operators from selling hygiene products. Will Unilever also function as the franchiser in this arrangement e.g. providing the training, follow up and support for the franchisees?

I agree with Ric that a professional market analysis / value chain analysis is stongly required at this point alongside the first trails with the new potty design. And very important I agree that a donor subsidy / or government subsidy for payment of disposal / reuse costs is a very crucial component for the whole business concept. Since revenue for human waste processing has so far not proofed promising. I have also not seen one example where human excreta processing has actually provided profits, so I would not factor in such a profit in the short and medium term. We had started a discussion about faecal sludge management some time ago in this forum which might be interesting for readers.
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-fae...te-and-public-sector

Cheers
Christian

Your project seems very well advanced, with the mold/ form about to be imported and prototypes made. There also seems to be some provisional thinking being put to costing. This is now clearly essential if this is to succeed beyond its technical innovation. Forgive my boldness, but I would go further to say that this is THE critical component now and you need an experienced market development adviser put on this immediately (if you have not already), or maybe the membership of this forum can help?

Closely examining where profit incentives might be, in order to provide incentives to people to drive the business. Our household waste, here in Dhaka, begins its sorting process as soon as it is put out in the street. There is no shortage of innovation and people looking to exploit the tiniest opportunity to earn a living. Sorting human waste is clearly more problematic, and needs external support to protect people who participate in the processing.

Market analysis could be done, for example, by one of the agencies specialised in this field (value chain analysis / making markets work for the poor/M4P). For example: IDE (which has good experience of sanitation marketing in Cambodia, for example); AFE; G-Mark; Practical Action; and Care.

All payment options to make the whole system operate, including:

• Individual private payments (rentals, pay per use, credit purchases);
• Profit from waste processing - Cost recovery from biogas digesting (is this really profitable? Is there any example in the world of human waste processing turning a profit?); and
• Donor subsidy (or government/WASA, ha!) justified for its return on sanitation improvements and a public good.

Maybe all of the above might help it work - a Public Private Donor Partnership?

In short, finding a business model which works is possibly more important than the technical design challenge.

Best wishes and good luck!
Ric

Dear Guy,

Thanks for your posting. I am still puzzled about one aspect: In earlier presentations about the GhanaSan project, it said the toilet uses urine diversion.
In your practice note it says about the toilet:

01 Branded in-home toilet with odour-control chemical and removable waste cartridge

So is it with urine diversion or without and what is your odour-control chemical?

In the case of MoSan, we would use no chemicals. Three aspects will help make it odour-free enough to be indoors, even in a small shack:

1. Urine diversion, hence collecting faeces dry.
2. Adding ash to the faeces
3. A tightly-closing lid

How is odour control achieved in the GhanaSan design and what are the experiences in this regard so far? Did you try the urine diversion in the initial stages and dropped this idea later?

Alex Jachnow (from GIZ Bangladesh) told me that Bangladesh is also a country where WSUP works in. So it would be great e.g. to collaborate on trials with a mobile toilet in slums of Bangladesh.
How big will your trial be in Kumasi?

And to react to Christoph's post above. You are right, interesting that so many ideas about mobile toilets are popping up in parallel. For me it was the Peepoos who first got me interested in mobile toilets... Regarding the X-Runner, my personal opinion (gut feeling) is that is has too many mechanical parts and that the idea of wheeling it through a slum would not be practical (even though it looks pretty on paper). But as I said, that is just a gut feeling.

Kind regards,
Elisabeth

Hi Christian

Fascinating discussion, very interesting information about MoSAN, good luck with this!

Flying response about the Clean Team project (previously referred to as Ghanasan) led by WSUP and Unilever; IDEO played a key role in early design. We're currently trialling it in Kumasi.

In response to your questions, the aim is certainly for the rental fee to cover both waste transport to local holding tank AND onward tanker transport to the final treatment/disposal/reuse site. A key goal of the ongoing trials is to confirm that this will be possible.

Here is a Practice Note we have recently produced about this.

Cheers! - Guy Norman (WSUP)

Dear Christoph,

Thanks for sharing the link. Interesting video from Ghanasan. The users actually say that renting the mobile toilets including the service for emptying (and I guess also proper disposal or reuse of waste) costs them less than the public toilets they used before. I am a bit in doubt if the rental costs are covering the entire operation expenses. If I am wrong it would be brilliant of course. It would be very interesting to follow their developments. Can anybody shed more details on the GhanaSan project regarding the financing model?

Cheers
Christian

Dear Mona,

Wow, very nice work on this! I can't believe it was only for a Bachelor's degree! This could easily be a Ph.D. project!

I like the design very much and wish you best of luck in your field trial!

Sincerely,

Julian Doczi
M.Sc. Student

Dear Elisabeth,
seems to be that there are some activities in parallel which are based on pretty much similar approaches (which is good…always a sign that the time is ripe for something).
Recently I heard from this activity GhanaSan , they do have a very similar concept. By that I became aware of openideo which placed a challenge about the problem we are largely discussing here www.openideo.com/open/how-can-we-improve...nities/realisation/#.
There might be ideas which could be used. I attach as well the pdf which can be downloaded from their page.
I also came across to the X-runner idea which is as well a somewhat similar approach.
All of them are nice because they tackle the problem of having a loo in your house, even though there is no space.
I first had some remarks but they still need thinking, so I preferred just to share the information with you.
Yours
Christoph

I was one of the people who attended Mona's presentation here in Eschborn recently and I am still very excited about this proposed toilet pot. My hyphothesis is that it looks so beautiful and is so handy that we won't have to convince any woman (in slums in Bangladesh) to want to use it!? (and be willing to pay for it??)

Here I show you two important photos from Mona's presentation (for full presentation see link above). Actually, these are not photos, even though they look so real - these are renderings, I like to call them "artist impressions":





We also discussed the big question of costs. It is currently unknown how much one toilet pot will cost once mass produced. When produced in large numbers, a different production process will be used which would bring the costs down. Mona suggested - as a rough guess and as an upper limit - that it must not cost more then 7 EUR per month (per family), and this would be possibly a leasing arrangement of some sort. This means you don't buy the toilet pot but you buy the collection service which would come by daily to pick up the urine and faeces. Probably a paper bag would be placed in the faeces bin to facilitate emptying (did you know that plastic bags are banned in Bangladesh?). A subsidy would most likely still be necessary. Anyway, the costs will certainly be looked at with the next larger trial.

When asked about sitting or squatting, people liked the idea of sitting. They said e.g. "Squatting is what I do when I do open defecation but if I have to pay for having such a toilet in my home, I might as well sit and get my money's worth!". Also people with disabilities and the elderly find it generally easier to sit than to squat.

Current status is this now: GIZ is currently making a contract with a German company to manufacture a high precision mould. This mould will then be transported to Bangladesh (hopefully in about say 4 weeks from now). There in manual labour, about 200 prototypes will be made from that mould (if the mould lasts that long). These prototypes will then be tested in the slums, i.e. with about 1000 people if you count 5 people per family. And then we will find out how people like it and if the collection service can work properly.

(important correction on 20 Nov.): Mona just told me that the mould will only survive making 30 or maximum of 100 toilet pots before it will become unusable (for this type of production process). A smaller trial size is anyway OK because modifications to the toilet pot design will probably be necessary anyhow).

So: stay tuned, this is going to be an exciting few months for GIZ Bangladesh, for Mona and for the GIZ sanitation team in Eschborn!

Regards,
Elisabeth

Dear everyone,

end of October I had the chance to meet the Ecosan team in Eschborn to present the mobile toilet pot.
Many thanks for having me.

For everyone else, please find the english presentation (split into two parts) and an english overview about MoSan here:
www.susana.org/lang-en/library?view=ccbktypeitem&type=2&id=1313

Im happy to answer your questions.

Mona Mijthab

@ Christoph, did you use this download?
www.susana.org/lang-en/library?view=ccbktypeitem&type=2&id=1237

End of October I will upload a pdf with english information.

> "Is this a locally manufactured product?"
The toilet pot is not manufactured yet. But I was inspired by hand craft work and shapes from Bangladesh.
Everything is designed and planned that it will be produced and operated by locals. All materials are available.


>"... there needs to be an initial subsidy to allow affordable prices. Is GIZ planning to provide those subsidies?"
We are currently looking for donors, but if GIZ will subsidize I don't know. I guess it depends on the trial results and if we find donors and project partners.