Hi Julia and REI,

Thank you for the good question:  Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions on better non-gendered language to use for discussing toilets that work with different anatomies?

The City of Portland, Oregon was an early adopter of what most people call "all-gender" restrooms. During discussions throughout 2015, it became clear that the idea of more than two genders was confusing to some people, and therefore a stumbling block to the social justice of Toilets for All.

The committee of activists representing the LGBTQ, Trans, aging, and disability communities and PHLUSH convened by the late City Commissioner Nick Fish ultimately agreed on the simple term "All-User".  Five years ago this week, Resolution 37175 www.portlandoregon.gov/index.cfm?&a=705246  passed unanimously in Portland City Council.

The choice of the term All-User and the unprecedented unanimous vote are largely attributed to the position of disabled Portlanders. Toilet access is a human right and one protected under the Americans with Disabilities. Owing to visible and invisible disabilities, some people have more difficulty using a restroom. Toilets need modification with grab bars, larger locks and sink handles, and perhaps sensors.  More important is that public bathrooms have a culture of inclusivity tolerance. Consider the disabled woman with a male caregiver or the father out for the day with a young daughter. They, too, must be able to use the facilities in safety and comfort.  Anna Preble, who represented PHLUSH, explains in this interview. www.phlush.org/2016/08/31/social-inclusi...ansgender-americans/

New restroom signage in Portland simply shows a toilet. It's not about who uses it.

Note that Resolution 37175 applies both to single occupancy and multi-occupant restrooms. The Pioneer Courthouse Square restroom is consists of a central hand washing area surrounded by private stalls, including large ADA stalls and a stall with a urinal. While placed in response to male preference, women are free to use the urinal, presumably with a funnel device.  Other urinal designs could be easily accommodated.

Hi Elisabeth,

REI's logo is special thanks to a beloved cultural meme.  The pitchfork is a reference to Grant Wood's famous American painting - American Gothic. In the Public Domain and available on WikiMedia Commons, people have a lot of fun changing it and using its elements.  It's perfect for the Rich Earth Institute based in rural Vermont. Let it Be!

Carol

Hi Rich Earth Institute (Julia),

It's good to think about these things, thanks for bringing this thread back to the top!

Just two quick reactions from me:
I don't like your proposed terminology of "designs for those who don't need assistance to stand to pee" and "designs for those who do need assistance." To me it feels like saying "there is something wrong with you women, why can't you stand to pee unassisted?!". Firstly, women can happily pee standing up as well but it's harder to keep your clothes clean (no problem to do it in the shower for example). Secondly, who says that the standing position is the "right one" for peeing? We could all squat to urinate and then all be the same. See for example this recent thread about urinals for boys and girls at a school in Ghana: forum.susana.org/27-schools-sanitation-a...ntly-completed#31360

Secondly, I am wondering if your logo (the one displayed as your profile picture) should be redesigned as it currently cements the binary notion of gender? 

 

Compare with the logo that Carol had put at the start of a thread showing three persons instead of two. Although showing a non-binary person as half male half female is maybe also not great. 

I think those toilet symbols that are widely used for male and female (showing a person with a skirt and one with trousers) are becoming old fashioned and might need replacing.
Some alternative options are also shown in the Wikipedia article on unisex toilets: 
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisex_public_toilet

Regards,
Elisabeth

In addition to the lead-up to World Toilet Day on Thursday, this is also Transgender Awareness week. We thought this would be a good time to revive this conversation. We believe it's important for people of all genders to not only have access to the toilets of their choosing but also for everyone to be able to participate in urine nutrient reclamation systems.  Rather than "male" and "female" systems (thinking about things like pStyles and urinals such as Marcelle ), we often refer to them as "designs for those who don't need assistance to stand to pee" and "designs for those who do need assistance."

Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions on better non-gendered language to use for discussing toilets that work with different anatomies? Or other thoughts about how to make urine diversion as gender inclusive as possible?

Dear Elisabeth,

I am glad that the article was useful. I am happy with its inclusion in the Wikipedia article under "Society and Culture." I will be happy to look up a few references from the Indian context that may fit well in the WP page.

Regards,
Durba

Dear Durba,

Excellent article, thanks very much for highlighting it to us. It was very timely for me because I've been working on improving the Wikipedia article on unisex public toilets lately. I therefore quickly picked out some key statements of your article and included them in the Wikipedia article (with citation) under the section of legislation and under "society and culture".
See here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisex_public_toilet
(find the citation to your article easily by using Control+F and Biswas)

If you (or anyone else) can help with improving that Wikipedia article further, e.g. by adding more references, that would be great.

Regards,
Elisabeth

Hello,

I published a small piece on "Challenges for Transgender-inclusive sanitation in India" recently.

Abstract: Currently, the sanitation needs of the transgender community are addressed on the assumption that the community is a homogeneous group, and that public toilets earmarked for them address their total sanitation requirements. However, designing transgender-inclusive sanitation requires a deeper examination of the role of caste, gender, and age within the transgender community.

Paper here: www.epw.in/journal/2019/18/commentary/ch...anitation-india.html

Hello,
In case you are interested, there is a related thread here: forum.susana.org/170-shared-toilets-comm...ntersex-people#22192
which focuses on trangender and intersex people and access to toilets, with a focus on developing countries.
(Based on this blog: www.wateraid.org/news/blogs/2017/july/sa...ng-beyond-the-binary)
Cheers,
Andrés

Dear Mughal,

Thanks for bringing this up! I've also been wondering about this: first we learn that gender separated public toilets are key (especially at schools), now we learn that unisex (or "all-gender") public toilets are also with merits. I would be keen to hear more from people outside of the U.S. how this conversation is perceived?

I have moved your post into an existing thread that Carol had started (please scrol up). I think it fits nicely together. Carol is THE expert on this topic for the situation in the U.S., where it has become a very hot topic, even going all the way up to the level of president Obama and now president Trump, as Carol explained in her posts.

Of course there are also Wikipedia articles about this topic which are rapidly developing:

There is this one on unisex public toilets: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unisex_public_toilet

And there is this one on Sex segregation in public restrooms: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_segregation_in_public_restrooms

I have suggested to my fellow Wikipedians to merge the two articles into one to avoid dublication of information (awaiting an outcome on that discussion).

Regards,
Elisabeth

All-gender Restrooms

Stanford University intends to convert single-user restrooms throughout the university to all-gender facilities in recognition of the needs of people who are transgender, gender fluid and gender non-conforming, according to their handout (news.stanford.edu/2017/05/12/stanford-in...er-restrooms-campus/).

The university’s efforts to convert restrooms to all-gender facilities and to offer its students more options in the residences reflect its commitment to inclusiveness.

Signs on single-occupancy men’s and women’s restrooms on campus will be converted to all-gender signs. Unisex signs, with pictograms of a man and woman, will also be converted to the more inclusive all-gender sign standard.

All-gender facilities are also called gender-neutral and gender-inclusive facilities. They can include restrooms, showers, locker rooms and changing rooms that are usable by persons of all gender identities, while still providing privacy and security for individuals.

While customs in countries varies, this is somewhat unique experience, and a bit surprising as well – boys and girls using some toilet facilities. The concept of single occupancy washrooms for girls is termed as step that enhances girls’ privacy. Many countries, even today, have separate facilities for females.

Forum users may like to share their experience in using all-gender washrooms, especially from the girl’s privacy point of view.

F H Mughal

Thank you, Elisabeth, for your good questions. Let me quickly note your questions and try to respond. Then as I find more solid information from journalists or transgender law groups I can add to these responses.

• My very practical and perhaps stupid question is this: How would you "police" that someone must use the (public) bathroom assigned to their birth certificate gender if that person looks like the other gender anyhow? Are you meant to have police men checking people's birth certificates or genitalia or whatever?

Your question is not stupid at all. In fact, your suggested answer is the only one possible. Policing gentalia is implied and there is no legal precedent for anything like that. Plus the whole idea is offensive beyond belief.

• Secondly, why are politicians bothered to try and sue the Obama administration over this - I mean don't they have more important things to do than to force people to use certain bathrooms over other bathrooms?

There has bee stalemate and stand off between the Democratic and Republican parties in Congress since 2012. Unable to get the legislation he wanted, President Obama has been taking executive action. Using his "pen and telephone", he has put into place legal measures for the duration of his term. In other words, the next president can (and likely will) simply abolish these measures. Among the most important are measures to protect our youth. One is DARPA or the Dream Act which allows kids brought to the US as infants to avoid deportation (to countries where they often don't even speak the language) and to continue their education. This is known as the Dream Act and the often brilliant kids protected are referred to as Dreamers. The other important one is protection against gender discrimination for all students in all schools under Title IX. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_IX Title IX is what strengthened girls' sports facilities in public schools after 1972, for example. Now the protection includes transgender children. Many are certain of their gender dysphoria at a young age: they know what they want and need. The current protects all transgender people against bullying and harassment in restrooms. I also see it as an anti-suicide measure. Bullying and expressions of hate from peers often leads to suicide and so does living with biological gender if it's the wrong one for you.

• It seems just ridiculous. (the argument is about crime in public toilets, is it? are there any facts that transgender people would commit more crimes when they use the female toilet? Most likely it is the other way around, i.e. that they would be attacked when they use the male toilet perhaps?)

You are correct. There is lots of crime against trans people. There is not a single case of trans people assaulting others in restrooms. Nor is there any evidence that criminals impersonate trans people to commit assault.

• Are you aware of similar backlashes against progressive gender-related legislation like in the US?

I'm not sure of the intent of your question, Elisabeth. However, I know there has been pushback against the UN's human development indicators for discrimination against lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgendered, queer and intersex people.

Dear Carol,

Thanks so much for setting up this "timeline" (www.phlush.org/2016/08/31/social-inclusi...ansgender-americans/) about "Social inclusion, toilet rights, and legal protection for transgender Americans".

This is very interesting.

I have a question about this:

March 23 2016 In an attempt to stop the Charlotte law, The Legislature of the State of North Carolina, passes House Bill 2 (HB2) and Governor Pat McCrory signs it into law. This “Public Facilities Privacy & Security Act” does the following:

• Prevents public schools, colleges, and government agencies in North Carolina from allowing transgender people to use bathrooms or changing rooms that match their gender identity. Institutions must force people to use facilities that correspond to the sex listed on their birth certificate.

and about this:

July 1, 2016 Ten additional states sue the Obama administration over its requirement that public schools must let transgender students use toilets and locker rooms that match their gender identity. The states are Arkansas, Kansas, Michigan, Montana, Nebraska, North Dakota, Ohio, South Carolina, South Dakota and Wyoming.

My very practical and perhaps stupid question is this:
How would you "police" that someone must use the (public) bathroom assigned to their birth certificate gender if that person looks like the other gender anyhow? Are you meant to have police men checking people's birth certificates or genitalia or whatever?
The only time someone might notice is in the case of open urinal stalls but anyone could use a private cubicle for urination anyhow? (OK, schools could be different if everyone knows the pupil in question personally)

Secondly, why are politicians bothered to try and sue the Obama administration over this - I mean don't they have more important things to do than to force people to use certain bathrooms over other bathrooms? It seems just ridiculous. (the argument is about crime in public toilets, is it? are there any facts that transgender people would commit more crimes when they use the female toilet? Most likely it is the other way around, i.e. that they would be attacked when they use the male toilet perhaps?)

Are you aware of similar backlashes against progressive gender-related legislation like in the US? OK, fair enough, transgender people probably have a very very difficult situation in most developing countries. But as far as developed countries go? I.e. those where homosexuality is accepted and not discriminated against?

Elisabeth

Public toilet is a right of every individual and people building them are really doing a great job.