Elisabeth

I think it is very interesting to suggest a more complete article on the theme of condominial sewage for wikipedia and to make a connection with the SUSANA forum to deepen the discussions.
We will elaborate the text proposal with more specific information as main experiences and numerical data.
We are maintaining communication until the conclusion of a final text

Ivan Paiva

Dear Ivan,

You said: "We can make a suggestion of text to edit in wikipedia."
My answer: yes, please!

Imagine we get a really good Wikipedia article on this topic. Then in future, when people ask questions about condominial sewerage our first response could be: "please read the Wikipedia article and then if you have further questions please come back to the forum and ask more".

Keep in mind when you make suggestions for the Wikipedia article to use plenty of good, reliable sources for any of the main statements, especially any statements involving numbers or places (the resources cited should ideally be in English).

Perhaps later, it might also be interesting to translate the Wikipedia article to Portuguese. Is the Portuguese version of Wikipedia used a lot in Brazil?

Regards,
Elisabeth

Hi Ainul

Like any sewage system there will be clogging if there is misuse by users which should be reduced with sanitary education activities with the residents. In the case of the condominial the identification of the place of the obstruction is facilitated by the existence of the inspection boxes along the pipes. Due to the small depths and the access through the inspection boxes the operation activity is quite simple and can be done even by the population itself. The operating model must be defined during the planning of the deployment and may be the company that operates the sanitation system, private companies or even the population itself.

Regards

Ivan

In my view I think the article on the condominium sewerage should not be mixed with that of the simplified considering that the condominial goes beyond the engineering issue. On the other hand the article about condominial in wikipedia is very summarized and could be extended. We can make a suggestion of text to edit in wikipedia.

Ivan

Hi Grace,

Thank you for the great video as well as for providing the bibliography. I am just wondering if there is clogging in the pipe and since it is a block system, so how do we know who (or let's say which house) has made the system clogged? Is the company who built the system also fully responsible for the maintenance?

Regards,
Ainul

Dear Grace,

Can we please add your Masters thesis to the SuSanA library?

And thanks for providing your bibliography (pity that only few items have URLs, but I guess they can all be found with Google).

It occurred to me: would you be interesting in bringing the Wikipedia article on condominial sewers up to scratch? It is very short, see here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condominial_sewerage

One could start with picking out those references from your list that should definetely be cited and then adding information with those references as sources.

The Wikipedia article on simplified sewerage (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_sewerage) is the overarching article and has more details. I wonder whether it would be wiser to merge the two rather than keeping them separate. What do you think?

(there is a previous discussion here in Wikipedia from 2014 where it was debated whether the article should be deleted or merged: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles...Condominial_sewerage)

If you think it's a good idea but feel scared by the thought of editing Wikipedia, then don't worry. I can help you or even do it for you if you tell me what needs to be done.

Regards,
Elisabeth

I wrote did my masters degree research on condominial in Brazil (the film is a movie version of my capstone paper). I'm attaching my bibliography here, as some of it might be of interesest to you and in any case it is good to have a list or resources together in one place. Especially valuable are the evaluations by Borja and Moraes, which I hope to translate soon.


Bibliography

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Borja, P., and L. Moraes. "Programa de saneamento ambiental da Bahia, Bahia Azul: características, resultados e análise crítica." Avaliação epidemiológica do impacto das ações do Programa Bahia Azul. Fiocruz, Salvador (2012).

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Work with condominial system since the first experiences in Brazil in the early 80's and adoption of this model on an industrial scale with great success in increasing coverage by sanitation systems was implemented in the federal capital Brasília and in the city of Salvador da Bahia serving more than three millions of people. In both cases the determining factor for the use of this method was the political decision of the local governments that overcame the resistance of the most conservative groups of engineers who were not prepared to face situations different from those found in regular urbanizations and that are not possible to solve in their offices without a deepening of the knowledge of the local realities and that need enormous creative effort to promote the solutions.

Dear Mr. Kevin,

Thank you for your interesting insights. I appreciate. Your post provides useful information. Your 20-year paper provides a absorbing review.
When you are less busy, please share more thoughts.

Ms. Grace: Please see this link: www.dawn.com/news/1403732/jit-sees-land-...rween-rehmans-murder

Regards,
F H Mughal

The situation with regard to low-cost sewerage in Pakistan is rather more complicated than suggested. First, I think it is important to recognize that the Orangi Pilot Project built on what people were already doing. Their big contributions were to advocate for appropriate building methods and to develop a methodology for people for people to work together. They also developed the idea of 'internal' and 'external' facilities, with the community being responsible for the first and Government for the second. Their problem in Karachi was that Government never really bought into the concept. The approach has been implemented much more widely than in Orangi itself, in various parts of Karachi, through a Swiss/UN project in Sindh and in various cities in Punjab. Mr Ahmad Nazir Wattoo still promotes the approach in Faisalabad and has worked in other areas.

The approach is quite distinct from the Brazilian Condominial approach although the two approaches share some features. The Brazilians were able to go much further in getting appropriate standards introduced into official rules and regulations. I am rather busy at the moment but can expand on this later if anyone is interested.

A point about condominial. I met Klaus Neder in the early 1990s and he told me that most Brazilian condominial sewers are laid in the street in front of houses. That will be the practical option in most countries, certainly in Pakistan. It is possible to lay shallow sewers in lanes no wider than 1.5m

I have attached a paper that I wrote about 20 years ago, which discusses some of the issues around the various approaches to low-cost sewerage. It was written for a research project that we were doing for DFID and the version that I have is not the final version. (I think that we did not use it in the end) so ignore the various comments, which are mainly notes to myself.

I hope that this is helpful

Kevin

I'm so sorry to hear that.

Yes, you are right. The project is confined to Orangi town. I think, the sponsors were not interested in bring it to scale. In addition, in Karachi, the Karachi and Sewerage Board have their sewerage system. About 2 years back, the project's director, Ms. Parveen, was brutally murdered. That ended the interest in its scale-up

F H Mughal