Dear all,
First of all thank you for accepting me in this group.
As certified waste manager with international status by ISWA, indeed it will be my pleasure to share our experiences and lessons learned in developing public private partnerships in the field of waste management in developing countries.

One such case study www.lahorecompost.com has been designed , developed and operated by me and is a registered CDM entity with UNFCCC.

Many such projects are in pipeline that you can see on our web site www.greentechnologies.com.pk

World Bank report on Energy Efficient Cities Initiative is enclosed

Lets share our experiences to develop such opportunities in developing countries .

All the best
Dr.Ata ul haq
Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Dear All,

Ntiokam Divine is my name and a youth advocate . I have being volunteering and still do for UNICEF Rural Voices of Youth, Global Youth Coalition on HIV and AIDS, Children of the Earth, Peace Jam Foundation , United Nations Commission on Sustainable Development Education Caucus Team and now SuSanA which I appreciate as well.

Leadership has always been my talent given by the Almighty because in some of the above mentioned initiatives I am National Focal and Youth Ambassador respectively.

I have been so much involved with Climate Change Negotiations and believe we are on a good an excellent track.

That said , I will be grateful if we join hands to make sure SuSanA is present in numbers in COP18 , Doha , Qatar by November 2012.

I will be so grateful to learn more from the various professionals on the field in order to share with my peers as well.

Reason being that CC and Energy is our main priority , I will be delighted if we could see on how to get Solar Panels or Lights for some rural communities with out electricity.

Secondly, being part of CC Negotiations, it will be great if we endeavour in near future to be fully represented since we deal mostly with remote or rural communities which are the ones really addressed in most of our programs.

Lets stand firm on our points because Rio+20 was not that good as expected and will be happy to get feed backs.



Kind regards.

Divine

Factsheet WG3.
The paper goes into some detail on the CH4 production through biogas (wet or flush toilet systems), but does specify the amount of NO2 in biogas. There is no comparison made between the wet and the dry (UDT, composting) toilet systems and the GHG from dry composting or using urine in agriculture. Since aerobic or dry toilets systems are on the long run more sustainable and lesser (community) cost, this may be useful.

In par: 3.2 the CH4 is only 21 times more insulating than CO2. Another aspect is the time that the GHG (CH4, NO2, CO2) remain active in the atmosphere.

A lot of small size rural biogas reactors have large gas leakage (China, India, Nepal, but in large size urban biogas reactors (including well sealed UASB) the gas leakage can be minimised.

In par 3.4.2 it can be mentioned that the monetary benefit of country wise production of fertilizer from human and animal waste products is very large since it saves foreign exchange. Especially in food producing countries these are important amounts.

In par 3.5.1 it can be mentioned that UDT and dry composting toilets are also sustainable in high altitude regions where deep frost freezes (and break) water borne toilets.

In par 3.6, the CER value of Euro 20 per ton may only be applicable for socially beneficial projects, with the so-called 'additionality' condition according to the UNFCCC regulations. Lower CER values will apply for commercial city-wide operations in which the social additionality cannot be proven.

In par 4.1.1. some references can be added about the Nepal biogas programme with >1/4 million rural biogas reactors www.bsp.org
On the top of page 6, the amount of biogas from human excreta in small (rural) or large reactors (urban) can be substantially increased with the addition of shredded organic waste containing carbon, to lower the carbon/Nitrogen ratio. This however needs training of the operator.

In par 4.1.3, using a commercial gas stove (for bottled gas) for low-pressure biogas from a biogas reactor will not always work. The pressure is to low (needs larger holes)and the untreated biogas can contain too much sulpher which will corrode the burner.

In the text it is not mentioned that for larger scale urban biogas development it would be necessary to have a separate sewer system for rainwater drainage.

There are quite some punctuation errors.

Sjoerd Nienhuys
www.nienhuys.info

Dear All,

Thanks for your valuable feedback. I have merged all the comments and edited the text accordingly. There are a few comments that might still need your direct input. Since I was in total agreement to reduce the chapter on biogas and its technology, I have deleted quite some text from this section so kindly have a look at it.





coverage- better word that also implies treatment is being done?

The text “Another possible energy recovery method is the recovery of heat from wastewater, such as from greywater or wastewater running in sewers or from the effluent of wastewater treatment plants, e.g. by the installation of heat exchangers” needs more elaboration as it is not self explanatory. How does this work? Do you have any information references?

@Ina – I like your suggestion on giving examples of CDM related projects but I do not have much information on my end to make a table. But surely something we could work on even after finalising the factsheet and include it at a later date.
Also would it be nice to get feedback from the WSSCC members on Climate change. We can see at a later date to accommodate it into the factsheet.

I will proceed now with the formatting of the factsheet. Minor changes in the factsheet can still be accommodated by Friday 16th Dec.

Thanks and best regards

Rahul

This email is posted on Behalf of Ina Jurga (WSSCC)on Friday 9th Dec 2011.

***************************************************************

Dear all

Greetings from Geneva !


Well, i tried to work a bit on the fact sheet, but time is not the best ally before Christmas….

I have some track changes and comments in the text, and some comments below on general chapters. And I have attached a short paper that I have compiled for SACOSAN, maybe that’s helpful.

2.5. I included some background into the adaptation measures, because I am missing some explanatory notes. Secondly before talking about adaptation, it is important to look also into resilience of different technologies (see: Vision 2030) .

2.6 emission trading. Well, the kyoto protocol and CDM mechanism is only valid until end 2012 and currently under discussion in Durban.
I think it would be much more interesting instead of just explaining the mechanism or a case study analysis (did this ever went to the UNFCC panel?) to give examples of CDM related sanitation/biogas projects under the different CDM protocols (not complete)
AM0080: Mitigation of greenhouse gases emissions with treatment of wastewater in aerobic wastewater treatment plants --- Version 1.0
AMS-III.AO.: Methane recovery through controlled anaerobic digestion --- Version 1.0
MS-III.H.: Methane recovery in wastewater treatment --- Version 16.0
MS-III.I.: Avoidance of methane production in wastewater treatment through replacement of anaerobic systems by aerobic systems --- Version 8.0
MS-III.Y.: Methane avoidance through separation of solids from wastewater or manure treatment systems --- Version 2.0

Are there good examples that we can add to the factsheet? Surely we know about the Biogas support programme in Nepal, which has been approved and rejected previously, so the whole sanitation/livestock linked CDM is a tricky one. See also GFA document page 42!!!
I am not so sure if we should decide to rephrase the whole chapter…


3,1. This chapter is very extensive . Suggestion: Maybe instead of trying to explaining the complex technology )3.1.3) while there is some good other background documents (such as the 2010 GTZ biogas document) better shorten it and stick to the core of RENEWABLE energy production and GHG mitigation, and give some concrete figures! (replacement of fossil fuels)


References:
There are some good updated publications around WASH and climate change. also see here: www.wsscc.org/resources/publication/climate-change-and-wash
But particularly this one: Who, DFID: Vision 2030


Apparently you are under time pressure, otherwise I could also offer review from WSSCC members on climate change and the WG on climate change and WASH (a bit inactive unfortunately). Just an idea….






Have a nice weekend

Ina Jurga
Technical Officer Networking and Knowledge Management
Water Supply & Sanitation Collaborative Council (WSSCC)
15, chemin Louis-Dunant
1202 Geneva, Switzerland
Tel: +41 22 560 81 67, Fax: +41 22 560 81 84
Email: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., Web: www.wsscc.org

The future is now: check out WSSCC’s new strategic plan for 2012-2016 [link]
L’avenir c’est maintenant : découvrez le nouveau plan stratégique du WSSCC pour 2012-2016 (lien)

Dear Sunder,

Thanks for your reply. To make 2 seperate factsheet at this point wouldnt be advisable as we are running out of time to finalise the book. However within the same factshet which actually explores the interelationship between sanitation -> Energy/water -> Climate change, you could try to bring in a stronger emphasis on climate change.

Dear Rob,

thanks for your email and I have added your attachment to your message. I had a quick look at the document. Have these biogas digesters been experiemented with Human waste? Also with regards to the time, as I mentioned to Sunder we are running out of time. Could you manage to have a look at the factsheet by Monday?

regards

Rahul

Sorry you have to give us more than 2 days notice on such things (if you want a serious review). This is a hectic time of year. Some of the biogas info seems dated - we built super cheap plastic models that outperform fixed dome digsters, all published in late 90s. See Energy for Sustainable Development, Lichtman et. al. Improved Biogas Systems Project 1999 (peer reviewed, top tech people). Systems now being rolled out for testing in Bangladesh as well. Just no time to go through the rest- I know well the arguements for poor gas yields from humans but we keep hearing anecdotal evidence from So Africa (Greg Austin in the network here) and some 100l plastic drum work all over Cairo that it can be a useful supplement-perhaps 1-2 meals p day, esp. if seeded also with kitchen wastes.

Dear Rahul,

Will go through this in detail and see if I can give more inputs by CoB 9th; but my first impressions are that the climate dimensions are somewhat weak. I suppose we do not have enough time, but ideally, we ought to split this into two separate fact sheets to do justice to the topics -- one on Sanitation and Renewable Energy, and another one on Sanitation and Climate Change (both adaptation and mitigation). Given time, I'd volunteer to take a crack at attempting this -- it would be well worth the effort.

Cheers,

Sunder

Dear All,

Please find attached an updated version of the factsheet with some additional changes to the version commented by Cecilia and Elisabeth. I would appreciate your comments preferably by Friday 9th Dec to finalise the factsheet.



Thanks and best regards

Rahul

I am posting this on behalf of Cecila Sundberg (from Sweden) who is one of the authors of the factsheet and has provided some comments. See the attachment below for the full factsheet with comments and edits. Thank you, Cecilia. (posted by EvM)

+++++++++++++++++++
Her comments include:
A1:
I do not know where to fit it in, but I think it would be good to add a bit more on emissions from different treatment systems, not only of methane but also N2O.

Good reference: Life cycle assessment of vertical and horizontal flow constructed wetlands for wastewater treatment considering nitrogen and carbon greenhouse gas emissions Original Research Article
Water Research, Volume 45, Issue 5, February 2011, Pages 2073-2081
Valerie J. Fuchs, James R. Mihelcic, John S. Gierke doi:10.1016/j.watres.2010.12.021

A2:
Mining of P for P fertiliser production is much less energy intensive than N-production.

A3:
Feacal sludge is often too old and stabilised to have any biogas potenial. I‘d rather write „fresh faecal sludge“ or something like that.

Dear all,

I have no direct answer to Sunder's suggestions above - it all depends on who has time to put into this working group to move something like this along.

My posting today is about the factsheet of WG 3. As you probably know we from the SuSanA secretariat are compiling all the working group factsheets into one book right now and are therefore taking another close look at all the existing factsheets.
Some of them have been worked on intensively by the working groups and are now available in an updated version.

The same could have been done for the factsheet of WG 3, but it has traditionally been difficult to find an active lead for this group who could drive such a process forward...

The factsheet in its current state is online here:
www.susana.org/lang-en/library/rm-susana...ypeitem&type=2&id=99

It was published in 2009.

I am no expert on this topic but have reviewed the factsheet and made some minor text improvements and also added some new sentences (see marked in yellow). This was mainly in the section on biogas, and on how to prevent unintentional biogas production and release into the atmosphere from sanitation systems. I found it had been written too theoretically, e.g. saying (more or less) "we should do away with all septic tanks as they release methane - and/or they must all have flares". "Build constructed wetlands instead as they are aerobic" (not strictly true and they also have a pre-treatment step which is most commonly a settling tank where biogas can also escape).

I also wonder if some new publications should be cited (as the reference list is supposed to list the most important publications in the field of the factsheet). E.g. I have now added the recently published GIZ technology reviews on constructed wetlands and biogas sanitation - for the biogas part of the factsheet.

So in short, please provide your input to updating this factsheet, we would like to hear from you (by 20 November ideally). I have made a start and you can see my main changes marked in yellow in the attached file. - All main contributors will be named in the factsheet, either as authors or as contributors.
(volunteers for lead or co-lead for this group are also welcome!).

Climate change is a real "hot topic" in German development cooperation and worldwide, so it is strategically important if SuSanA has a good, up-to-date factsheet showing the links between sanitation, renewable energy and climate change (in the field of climate change adaption and mitigation).

Kind regards,
Elisabeth

Considering (a) the WG 3 topic -- the confluence of sanitation, renewable energies and climate change and (b) the inherent limitations of of an informal group in taking on large projectised agendas, as next steps, the WG could possibly initially explore the option of narrowing the bandwidth to areas of the world where the targeted advocacy, policy advisory support, and possibly technical assistance via the WG forum on the interface of sanitation, renewables and climate change could play a force multiplier role. Examples of such areas could be say: small islands developing states, especially those of coral origin, and mountain communities, especially in developing nation contexts such as in the Hindukush Himalaya, Andes, and elsewhere. The reasons for these choices are fairly obvious, and I'd be happy to spell these out if necessary

Therefore, why not set up a task group to develop define the parameters for an agenda for a time-bound program deployment in this direction??

Cheers all,

Sunder