There is a danger in making general observations on ones experiences rather than scientific trials because as humans we all tend to suffer from what is called "confirmation bias". Belief and indoctrination go hand in hand. Seeding a culture into organic matter to initiate decomposition is well proven to speed up the colonisation process, but adding a special "exogenous" proprietary culture to septage in order to "enhance" decomposition can be viewed with scepticism, because a diverse and competing population of organisms will colonise the media regardless, to stabilise over time into what best suits the decomposition environment. The system is not and cannot be closed.

Things go wrong not because of the mix of organisms, but the environment. It is simple to optimise a system without using any additives - adjust the environment to suit the right organisms. Pits tend to have poor conditions for decomposition organisms so sludge builds up. Septic tanks are slow, so don't overload them. To fix a problem the system needs to be physically adjusted to function better. There is no easy way out.

Once the claims go beyond the plausible into the outrageous (stopping accumulation of sludge in pits simply by using additives) one either follows (belief) or is not convinced enough to spend money on the product.

"Snake oil" is a bit more than dodgy products, it is marketing based on claims of "results" that are not founded on real science but are presented as compelling evidence of a benefit in order to sell the product. These can be elaborate hoaxes that combine reports and testimonies into what appears at face value to be very convincing.

cheers
Dean

Thanks Elisabeth. Wish EM could be as effective as profile photos! Kevin Tayler's summary of research on the subject is much appreciated but shows the need for more systematic experimentation. My experience with DEWATS for grey water recycling in our own home shows that odour is reduced if Bokashi EM is regularly (about twice a month) added in the sedimentation tank and the Baffle reactor. Our interest in Bokashi however is mainly to reduce the frequency of solid waste collection in urban areas and shorten the composting cycle.

Dear Asha (Orchha),

Regarding Bokashi, I wonder if you have seen this previous thread on the forum here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-com...ve-microorganisms-em

You might find it useful and might like to revitalise it by asking follow-up questions there. (or keep it in this thread if you think it fits better here).

Regards,
Elisabeth

P.S. Lovely photo that you've uploaded of yourself! Profile photos work! I hadn't noticed your previous two posts that much but I have now noticed this one with a profile photo.

Dear Christophe,

Thanks for your post. You wrote:

I have different documents on the technology and pilot projects that I can provide you but they are very heavy and need to be sent separetetly of this message. If you could give me your email address, I can send all in one message of big files.

Rather than sending such files to e-mail addresses, I suggest you upload them to a file sharing website and then simply share the link. This could be for example Dropbox or Google drive (you get free storage capacity with your gmail address). There are also other options. Maximum file size for attaching a file to a forum post on this forum is 19.5 MB.

I would personally be interested in the powerpoint presentation. You can by the way shrink down the size of a powerpoint file by compressing all photos and additionally saving as pdf file.

So please could you attach or send the link to this one:

- A PowerPoint presentation, which describes the different pilot projects undertaken in Africa, including a very simplified explanation of the used bio-additive,

Why does it only include a simplified explanation and not the full explanation? Is it due to copyright reasons?
Simplified explanations are often used for "snake oil" type products... (This is a term we used a lot in Australia for somewhat dodgy products and I had to chuckle when I saw Dean from New Zealand use it).

What would be the scientific mechanism for this?:

A seeding of strains of exogenous microorganisms, specifics and selected, implemented at the beginning of the use of the pit latrine, to stop the accumulation of faecal sludge,

Regards,
Elisabeth

I honestly feel a bit torn on this... on the one hand a lot of people seem to have good anecdotal evidence of it working, but on the other hand there seem to be a lot of shady businesses especially in francophone Africa selling EM as a quick solution to the difficult problem of sanitation.

I guess I have read most of what little better scientific studies are available on the topic (in English language), but I think they mostly have some blind spots in which there might after all be some measurable effect of EM (such as smell reduction). I am also wondering if specific dosing of nutrients and minerals (or liquid / pH adjustment) might improve digestion; as I doubt the few extra microorganisms in EM make much of a difference in regards to total metabolic activity for sludge reduction...

Thanks to Bogdan for introducing this interesting discussion. I'd like to add a question ... here in the Himalayas we have started making Bokashi innoculum to compost kitchen waste anaerobically using rice wash, milk, jaggery and saw dust. A cheap way of producing EM. They say that the leachate (Bokashi tea, as they call it) can be used to activate decomposition in septic tanks. Has anyone experimented with this?

Dear Elisabeth,

Thanks a lot for your message!

Since 2013, I have succeeded to get spectacular and relevant results with few pilot projects in Africa, with the bio-additive to control and stop the accumulation of faecal sludge in pit latrine.

The spectacular results of the additive come from a combination of two factors:
- A seeding of strains of exogenous microorganisms, specifics and selected, implemented at the beginning of the use of the pit latrine, to stop the accumulation of faecal sludge,
- A biological product containing strains of specific microorganisms, nested or “bio-seeded” on a mineral substrate, which allows their development and their protection, in opposition to the endogenous strains in the faecal sludge in large number and variety.

I have different documents on the technology and pilot projects that I can provide you but they are very heavy and need to be sent separetetly of this message. If you could give me your email address, I can send all in one message of big files.
These documents are:
- A PowerPoint presentation, which describes the different pilot projects undertaken in Africa, including a very simplified explanation of the used bio-additive,
- An exploration work that I carried out for the ELRHA and the Humanitarian Innovation Fund (Save the Children), which summarizes, among other things, all research projects carried out with additives between 1998 and 2015,
- A report in French, from the National Society of the Red-Cross of Ivory-Coast (CRCI) regarding the first pilot project implemented in 2013 (follow up until 2017).
- A report in French, from the UNHCR regarding 1 year of experimentation in Chad with the Bio-Additive

At the beginning, I worked with a manufacturer who was very expensive (40€/kg) and not reliable on price and business partnership. But today I found a laboratory in France, which propose the same kind of product at 13€/Kg (very reasonable to me), to be developed and commercialised in emerging countries.

I am glad and available to discuss with you about all details and technical information regarding the product and pilot projects.
I am not representing a product or a private laboratory. I am a Water and Environmental engineer passionate by research and Innovation and I work as a consultant (or “expert”) to develop new technologies in sanitation and organic waste treatment.

I have set up a start-up in Switzerland to develop innovation concepts for the environment and sanitation (BCI environment).
My wish is to carry on new projects development to make innovation technologies available at a good price for the emerging countries and sanitation stakeholders.

At least, you will find in the report attached, that the National Society of Red-Cross of Ivory-Coast calculated a saving of 40% on the latrine infrastructure with the bio-product. They should start a large national project of new brand latrine construction with the product during 2017.

Cheers!

Christophe

Hi Dean!

Thank you for good advice!
I am probably not going to experiment with the additives stuff -- I have enough work with worms and "regular bacteria". All I want to do is get some trustable opinions (like you all give here) to provide some living space for the real ecosaniation stuff at least here in Ukraine and do not let it being replaced by fake one. We need real stuff to have a chance -- it's the only way out of trouble.
Regards,
Bogdan

Hi Bogdan,
be careful with accumulating observation data - unless your trial design is correctly set up the results may only perpetuate the myth and be used by snake-oil salesmen as "evidence" for their products worth. Always make sure that you have controls (treatment vs no treatment), make sure that no other differences exist between control and treatment that could skew the results and have more than one replicate (repeat your trial) if you want credible results. Also ensure you accumulate data over a sufficient time period.

cheers
Dean

Dear Marijn!

Thank you fo sharing your thoughts and experince as for the EM additives. We really need to accumulate observations data in order to understand their real potential and use and separate this from marketing myths. I think this data will be usefull first of all for those who sell the EM so that they can give their customers the real state of things.

Regards,
Bogdan

Dear Bogdan,

I have limited experience with EM, but more with anaerobic processes and septic tanks.

The only way we have used EM, is to reduce odor in (semi) public toilets. We spray it with an old glass cleaner spray bottle once a day on the floor around pour-flush toilets and it does seem to reduce odors quite a lot. However, this is based on very few observations in three toilets. So far from a rigorous study .

I am highly skeptical that EM (or any other additive) could significantly improve an anaerobic treatment system (e.g. septic tank). Especially, the claim that it would significantly reduce sludge accumulation makes little sense to me. Considering that the sludge in a well working septic tank is predominantly materials that are not digested by bacterial processes (they are mainly non-volatile solids), I don’t see how adding a different strain of bacteria would prevent them from accumulating.

If septic tanks fill up faster than expected, there are two main reasons:
-Some chemical interference (probably from high strength cleaning fluids) that disrupts the anaerobic digestion processes.
-System fills up with non-degradable solids. This could be non-organic waste flushed down by people, or even dirt and sand tracked into toilets using squatting pans.

I don’t see how adding some EM (or other additive) is going to solve either of these problems.

In summary, since I don’t see a plausible way in which additives would really improve anaerobic system performance I would need some quite convincing evidence to change my mind.

For pit based systems, there may be a difference between those where anaerobic and aerobic conditions prevail. In pits that always remain a little wet (such as those used with pour-flush toilets in relatively low absorption soils) the main process reducing solids is again anaerobic digestion. So with regards to filling rates, I would repeat my argument made above.

If pits are dry (part of) the digestion and volume reduction process will be aerobic (composting), I have no idea if EM may enhance this process. Similar for composting toilets, which are specifically designed for aerobic composting, I don’t know if EM (or other additives would be effective). However, as Kris said, I would not expect a very noticeable impact beyond probably some smell reduction.

Regards

Marijn

Dear Elisabeth!

I mean that great number of people in Ukraine simply believe in EM and do not accept any discussions on the subject.
It would be Ok but it inteferes in some ways with real ecosaniation practices introduction (proper design of WWT, proper maintanenece and sizing of septic tank and filltration system, proper dry tolet design with ventilation and leacheate disposal etc, UD, and so on) creating a general public opinion that everything can be solved through buying "magic powder" on regular basis . I have seen people discharging basicly raw sewage into water streams in Carpathians absolutely sure it is Ok simply because they regularily add to their flush toilets "special bacteria" they buy through internet. In this case it is more than making people wasting their money -- it is promoting environmental pollution.

Anyway, thank you for pointing both at susana topics and wiki artickles. I have now much more info on the subject. Our forum is a very good place, indeed,