Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

  • KeithBell
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Agreed and thanks so much, Chris. I obviously glanced over the dolphin study in attempt to illustrate sea creatures suffering the same maladies as humans due to poor sanitation. That doesn't help the cause, my apologies.

Here's an interesting 2010 paper about increasing obesity trends in both captive and feral animals:
rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/.../rspb.2010.1890.full

There's plenty of obesity research detailing the problem as a matter of flora imbalance (gut dysbiosis). What's controversial is whether or not children are born predisposed, a matter of poor microbial predisposition. This may also explain dramatic rise in autism:
www.nytimes.com/2013/08/29/science/human...ore-birth.html?_r=2& :

Another health crisis where sanitation has taken a back seat is gender-bending in the environment, especially well-studied in fish. By far, most focus is on endocrine disrupting chemicals such as atrazine. But this is in disregard of natural estrogens in sewage. Everyone excretes cholesterol and its metabolite, coprostanol, from which all steroid hormones are derived. Hormonal pollution is barely on the map.

And I completely agree, associating NCDs with sewage is difficult to grasp. But I believe there's ample evidence to make the case as part of a public education campaign focusing on the global scourge: diabetes.
Evidence is mounting rapidly that the problem is one of gut flora imbalance and it's not such a leap to connect this with poor sanitation:
news.ku.dk/all_news/2012/2012.9/gut-bact...ould-cause-diabetes/
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  • joeturner
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Given that we can't deal with sanitation even when we've proven that many diseases are directly caused by faeces contaminated potable water, how actually would it help to know that these other NCDs were also caused by it? I don't understand your logic.

I think there is some evidence of harmful effects of hormonal releases, of heavy metals (but then that is not going to be much of an issue in non-industrial releases to water) etc. Even accepting that all of the effect are direct and real, which is again quite an assumption, I don't understand how you think this would act as a 'rallying point for improved sanitation'. How is improved sanitation (as discussed on this website) going to help with 'gender-bending'?

It seems to me that you've linked some fairly random diseases to sewage sludge releases, which might not at all be relevant to most developing country situations and then suggested that low tech improved sanitation would somehow magically solve these problems, when I can't see that it would.
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  • KeithBell
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Because NCDs are currently the world's health focus and sanitation isn't even on the agenda. It's been a lost opportunity. Everyone thinks it's about diet and exercise.

Diabetes epidemics are global. This isn't just about developing nations. The trends are truly frightening, perhaps enough for people to stop defecating in water . . . and actually connect with the web of life via consideration of their intestinal tracts as driver of general health.
blogs.reuters.com/data-dive/2013/11/15/t...-epidemic-in-charts/

Diabetes and blood sugar imbalances are the centerpiece of all major diseases, physical and mental illness.
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  • joeturner
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

You don't seem to have understood my point.

Let us say that diabetes is caused somehow by sewage sludge. Explain to me how what technology we could use to prevent that in a developing country context. Most people do not defecate directly into water. What actually do you think it is about the sewage that would cause diabetes and what pathway are you suggesting we use to treat and prevent people from being exposed to whatever-it-is.

Diabetes is obviously a problem, but clearly not as great a problem as diseases caused directly by faeces-contaminated potable water. The former is caused by a range of factors, including diet, the latter is caused directly by microbes. If the 'world's health focus' cannot see (and deal with) a direct relationship between poor sanitation, microbial contamination and diseases affecting a massive proportion of the population of the world, why do you think they're going to do anything about it even if you can link it to diabetes?

I appreciate you are not a scientist, but you don't seem to be making a lot of sense at the moment.

Diabetes and blood sugar imbalances are the centerpiece of all major diseases, physical and mental illness.


And this, my friend, is rubbish.
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Joe, it appears you're not understanding my view, as well as the most recent scientific view, of what diabetes really is: microbial imbalance.

There are several peer-reviewed papers detailing this view:
health.usnews.com/health-news/news/artic...d-to-type-2-diabetes
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/808519
articles.latimes.com/2013/may/29/science...etes-europe-20130529

This is why I believe diabetes is a sanitation issue. Of course, diet is important, but the reason it's important is because diet shifts flora. You're not the only one consuming what you place in your mouth. The latest in health is diet which considers this factor.

As stated, this isn't just about the developing world. But to answer your question, water is contaminated in the developing world due to wastewater treatment plants, groundwater-contaminating pit latrines and direct defecation in rivers, lakes and oceans. 60% of the world's population--4.1 billion people--use sanitation systems that simply dump the untreated waste back into the environment.

Have you ever heard the expression "Death begins in the colon" ? This was stated by Hippocrates and is now more true than ever.

Are you familiar with the burgeoning science of gut-brain connection as cause of mental illness? This concept is rapidly gaining credibility.

It's obvious the world needs to be educated about the relationship of intestinal health to overall health. And it's all about microbial balance. I believe the issue of diabetes is a good way to illustrate the point with hope to steer nations and the World Bank away from building wastewater treatment plants and promote dry compost toilet technology.
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  • joeturner
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Joe, it appears you're not understanding my view, as well as the most recent scientific view, of what diabetes really is: microbial imbalance.
C
There are several peer-reviewed papers detailing this view:
health.usnews.com/health-news/news/artic...d-to-type-2-diabetes
www.medscape.com/viewarticle/808519
articles.latimes.com/2013/may/29/science...etes-europe-20130529


None of these suggest that pathogens from potable water cause diabetes. Correlation does not imply causation.

This is why I believe diabetes is a sanitation issue. Of course, diet is important, but the reason it's important is because diet shifts flora. You're not the only one consuming what you place in your mouth. The latest in health is diet which considers this factor.


You'd need to be able to prove that a) there was a causal link between pathogens in potable water and diabetes and b) that there were forms of sanitation technology that prevented this. You haven't done either.

As stated, this isn't just about the developing world. But to answer your question, water is contaminated in the developing world due to wastewater treatment plants, groundwater-contaminating pit latrines and direct defecation in rivers, lakes and oceans. 60% of the world's population--4.1 billion people--use sanitation systems that simply dump the untreated waste back into the environment.


All sanitation systems we discuss here put human sewage back into the environment. You would have to prove that the treatment had destroyed whatever microbes you claim are causing diabetes.

Have you ever heard the expression "Death begins in the colon" ? This was stated by Hippocrates and is now more true than ever.


Irrelevant.

Are you familiar with the burgeoning science of gut-brain connection as cause of mental illness? This concept is rapidly gaining credibility.


No, but then I wouldn't have, as I am trained as a soil scientist not a doctor. I'm not prepared to take your word for whether it is a credible idea, given what you've written so far is incredible.

It's obvious the world needs to be educated about the relationship of intestinal health to overall health. And it's all about microbial balance. I believe the issue of diabetes is a good way to illustrate the point with hope to steer nations and the World Bank away from building wastewater treatment plants and promote dry compost toilet technology.


I think you're talking drivel.
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  • KeithBell
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Completely agreed, research needs to take place to demonstrate microbial pollution in water as source of gut flora imbalance/shift associated with diabetes. And that's half the reason I've been posting here in attempt to create interest.

As a soil scientist, you'll be interested in this study about PCBs in soil associated with high rates of diabetes:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3346783/

An article about the study:
www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?i...-dirty-soil-diabetes

Similar studies are about air pollution as cause of diabetes. Yet no one seems to be considering sewage and water pollution, an obvious connection. The reason is that people still don't understand what diabetes really is . . . how interesting that gastric bypass surgery rapidly halts diabetes by removal of infected section of small intestine.

How is it that a developed nation such as Germany is experiencing a fierce diabetes epidemic? 600,000 people suffered from diabetes near the end of World War II compared to eight million now. It's not about diet and exercise, but pollution. The same is true of the obesity epidemic.
www.welt.de/gesundheit/article13716752/D...e-vor-15-Jahren.html
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  • joeturner
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

KeithBell wrote: Completely agreed, research needs to take place to demonstrate microbial pollution in water as source of gut flora imbalance/shift associated with diabetes. And that's half the reason I've been posting here in attempt to create interest.

As a soil scientist, you'll be interested in this study about PCBs in soil associated with high rates of diabetes:
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3346783/

An article about the study:
www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?i...-dirty-soil-diabetes


PCBs are not found in faeces. If they are found in sewage sludge it is from industrial sources. Even if they are found in a particular sewage sludge, the types of improved sanitation we discuss here are not going to destroy PCBs.


Similar studies are about air pollution as cause of diabetes. Yet no one seems to be considering sewage and water pollution, an obvious connection. The reason is that people still don't understand what diabetes really is . . . how interesting that gastric bypass surgery rapidly halts diabetes by removal of infected section of small intestine.


Clearly it is not an obvious connection. Even if there is a connection, it is not clear that there would be person-to-person infection from faeces. Even if there was, it is not clear that any of the technology we discuss here would prevent it. Even if it did, there would be little point in focussing on diabetes given the number of complexity of diseases we know for a fact are caused by faecal pathogens.

How is it that a developed nation such as Germany is experiencing a fierce diabetes epidemic? 600,000 people suffered from diabetes near the end of World War II compared to eight million now. It's not about diet and exercise, but pollution. The same is true of the obesity epidemic.
www.welt.de/gesundheit/article13716752/D...e-vor-15-Jahren.html


I am not a medic, but that sounds like nonsense. But even allowing that there might be an element of truth, there does not seem to be much relevance in this paragraph to the sanitation situation that we discuss on this website forum.
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Joe, PCBs is just an example of how pollution causes diabetes. I wasn't inferring anything about PCBs in sewage. The mechanism is via gut flora shift.

Are you saying diabetes is not a problem in the developing world? See here:
www.intechopen.com/books/diabetes-mellit...ries-and-case-series
www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2003/pr86/en/
www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp068177
www.ottawacitizen.com/business/Ottawa+wi...t/9193765/story.html
link.springer.com/journal/13410
www.ngrguardiannews.com/index.php/featur...st-health-risk-today
www.iom.edu/~/media/Files/Activity%20Fil...ioDisease/Brown.ashx
care.diabetesjournals.org/content/34/6/1249.full
www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm...-developi-2009-06-16

Given the enormity of the problem, it's truly surprising sanitation is not on the NCD agenda, nor are NCDs on the sanitation agenda. Both industries appear blind.

Diabetes, by the way, is a leading cause of blindness in the world: diabetic retinopathy, a problem which dwarfs trachoma as cause of blindness:
health.india.com/diseases-conditions/bew...n-make-you-go-blind/
articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/201...ion-loss-visual-loss

Relatedly, we might construe now mysterious glaucoma as a sanitation issue. "Massive" South-East Asian eye damage is strongly associated with insulin resistance (diabetes), yet the excruciating problem is now blamed on studying and lack of sun exposure:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-17942181

Amputation is another diabetes-related issue:
www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-6-214406-...amputations-per-year

Speaking of sun exposure, are these children in Bangladesh suffering rickets (vitamin D deficiency) because they're using too much sunblock? Of course not. They were born imbalanced from imbalanced mothers, a matter of poor microbial predisposition and high rates of gestational diabetes:
www.irinnews.org/report/85703/bangladesh...n-could-have-rickets
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

This thread may just as well be about the global obesity epidemic instead of diabetes. Obesity and diabetes are like brother and sister, though there are also millions of thin diabetics. In fact, thin diabetics are more vulnerable to death by the disease than fat diabetics:
www.cnn.com/2012/08/09/health/obesity-pa...-thin-diabetes-time/

Again, diabetes and obesity are matters of microbial imbalance. Why this is not associated with poor sanitation is beyond me. Joe Turner says it's "rubbish," "nonsense" and "drivel" without doing his due diligence in understanding how the body works and doesn't work. At least he admits he's not a medic. Thanks for considering, Joe. I appreciate the dialogue.

I've always found it curious that island nations lead the world in obesity. Nations such a Tonga labeled "world's fattest nation," but is it really a matter of diet? Or have they been consuming their own waste for generations?

"Almost 20% of the adult Tongan population suffers from diabetes and the death rate from nutritional conditions is 10 times that of the UK's."
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2006/au...handwellbeing.health

What is it about small islands which makes people so fat and diabetic? It looks like Tonga will be receiving UN funding for sewage treatment:
english.yanjian.com.cn/Article/ShowArticle.asp?ArticleID=120

What a big, fat mess:
pidp.org/pireport/2013/March/03-07-01.htm


books.google.com/books?id=SPsX9nqw6uUC&p...nga%20sewage&f=false
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Please find me ONE (1) study correlating poor sanitation with obesity, diabetes and other NCDs in the Pacific Islands where these problems are rampant. Everyone believes it's about poor diet and being sedentary.

Should I spare you all the links regarding obesity and diabetes in the Pacific Islands blamed on diet and lack of exercise? It's about the water leading to microbial imbalance.

And it has become generational:
www.nytimes.com/2013/08/29/science/human...fore-birth.html?_r=0
www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/53116932-78/h...-department.html.csp
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Re: Diabetes and NCDs (non-communicable diseases) as rallying point for improved sanitation

Speaking of diabetes, it's now been found artificial sweeteners are polluting water supply due to WWTPs unable to handle these chemicals.
www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sc....story#ixzz2o88c76iF

Water-based sanitation is a disgrace to Earth. It's quite surprising that even progressive sanitation professionals still believe flushing toilets are the solution when they are actually the major source of pollution. Moreover, the technology, along with drinking water treatment, denudes our microbial heritage akin to deforestation.
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