Could it be that the 30€ are for a low volume sample? I can hardly believe that such a thing should cost more than 5€ mass produced.

Otherwise... tried the old cut condom trick?

Hi Mona;
talking prices: Talk to Mr. Henniger (he´s German aswell) from Culu.
Nice guy! - Tell him my "Liebe Grüße von Bernhard Ranner / EOOS"

Best
B

Dear Elisabeth, dear Bernhard,

thanks so much for your detailed information.
Today I received a price offer from Keramag. The "Anti Syphon Trap" which is used within their waterless urinals costs 30€ + Mwst. (added tax) in Germany.

I hoped it would be less. Maybe the ping-pong ball needs some re-design to become a feasible smell stop solution

Looking forward to talk to you in person Bernhard.

All the best,
Mona

Dear Mona,

That odour control device by Keramag that you mentioned is in wide-spread use in the Keramag waterless urinals. I would say it is good and reliable. We had the Keramag waterless urinals in the Saniresch project (and they are still installed at the GIZ building now - as they are in thousands of other locations in Germany). Maintenance requirements for these "flat rubber tube" valves have been described in detail in the Saniresch reports (see: www.saniresch.de or in SuSanA library: www.susana.org/library?search=winker). In short, you need monthly manual cleaning for public facilities (maybe less at household level). This is fast & easy but nevertheless it was a constant struggle for Martina and her team to keep ensuring that the cleaning staff does not "forget" to do it. Hopefully one day it would be routine for them, just like changing empty soap dispensers.

The EcoSmellStop in my opinion is a superior design. It looks similar to the Keramag device but it uses two silicon "curtain" pieces and has certain self-cleansing properties and needs less frequent maintenance and also lasts longer. I can vouch for its long life-time, we have a plastic waterless urinal at home and the same ESS has been in there for so long that I can't even remember when I last changed it. Could be two years by now.

I wrote a paper together with Peter Dahm (the Swiss-South African inventor of the ESS) already back in 2009:
susana.org/lang-en/library/library?view=...peitem&type=2&id=890
von Münch, E., Dahm, P. (2009). Waterless Urinals - A Proposal to Save Water and Recover Urine Nutrients in Africa. 34th WEDC International Conference, Addis Ababa, Ethiopia.

The above-mentioned comparison of the two designs is explained in there.

I also wrote about it together with Martina Winker in the technology review on urine diversion components here:
susana.org/lang-en/library/library?view=...peitem&type=2&id=875
von Münch, E., Winker, M. (2011). Technology review of urine diversion components - Overview on urine diversion components such as waterless urinals, urine diversion toilets, urine storage and reuse systems. Gesellschaft für Internationale Zusammenarbeit (GIZ) GmbH. Eschborn, Germany.

OK, so I think the ESS is good, now the next question is: where can you buy one? This is the manufacturer in South Africa: www.addicom.net/. You told me that you didn't receive a response from them yet. I could imagine that there must be also suppliers in Germany, either with a licence from Addicom or producing something very similar which uses the same principle.

I had a quick look on Google and there is this one for example:
www.watersave-urinalsysteme.de/produkte/zubehoer



(I remember seeing it in real life too)

Oh and the Ernst waterless urinals use the same one as the ESS, too, you can see it here:



www.system-ernst.de/index.php/ernst_urinal_1000.html

They call it the KI valve (I think from Keller Invent).

Unfortunately, there are some nasty patent fights over all this - I somehow know one side of the story, but I think it's prudent if I don't write about it here on the forum.

I have been very impressed with Peter's work in South Africa, so I hope you can either get the ESS from him or he can tell you which company to buy it from in Germany.
Good luck!

If anyone else has more insights and ideas on the EcoSmellStop or similar devices, please let us know.

Regards,
Elisabeth

Mona wrote: @Bernhard you mentioned similar valves? Even by Swiss manufacturers? Please share with us, where can we find them?

www.enswico.com (eawag is in contact with them as well... ZRH / CH connection)
www.culu.eu (I was in contact with him several times - very helpfull guy)

best
b

ps: let´s talk next week

Dear Bernhard, dear Elisabeth and all readers,

currently I am in the process to improve the MoSan (mobile urine-diversion-toilet for household use) - find information about it here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mob...an-now-in-kenya#6521.

I am looking for a smell stop for the urine part that is low-cost and easily adaptable to my design. I already found the Addicom EcoSmellStop, which was discussed here before: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-us...and-and-austria#3697

Today I found a similar product by Keramag: "Anti Syphon Trap" (pro.keramag.com/de/produktdaten/produktd...bank.html?mnr=595710)

@Bernhard you mentioned similar valves? Even by Swiss manufacturers? Please share with us, where can we find them?

Many thanks in advance!
Mona

in the very short time i´m in the uddt "business" now I heard a lot of gossip concerning these patents . I will not comment on this to keep the thread somewhat on topic. PM me if you need help finding the patent documents.

Dear Bernhard,

The photos you are showing are showing the EcoSmellStop (ESS) from Addicom. As far as I know, Addicom (Peter Dahm) developed them first, but I suppose this is difficult to prove one way or another - and is perhaps not of relevance here.

Here is the "see-through" ESS to make it easier to understand how it works (the urine flows through the blue silicon curtains/flaps that stick together when wet but don't stick so tight that the urine couldn't get through):

Eco Smellstop for waterless urinal from Addicom with a see-through cover for demonstration by Sustainable sanitation , on Flickr

More photos are also available here:
www.flickr.com/photos/gtzecosan/sets/721...035/with/3990983118/

There is actually a parallel discussion on the forum about waterless urinals here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-uri...riences-odour-issues


Regards,
Elisabeth

Note by moderator: This post was moved from the thread on the Eawag/EOOS grant (forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-us...tzerland-and-austria) into a separate thread.
++++++++++++++++++++++

Dear Elisabeth,

Sure, you are right. The smell from the urine tank needs to be dealt with as well.
We are currently using a valve very similar to the one you mentioned but is produced by a Swiss company.
But there are a number of manufacturers that produce such valves..
not only in Germany or Switzerland but also in South Africa - thanks for the tip, I didn´t´know addicom.



Greetings,
Bernard