Hi Arno,

Thanks for this info. Yes, I agree that this a great option where there is enough space ... and should be explored and applied more.

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday

Hi Chris
This is backyard science with two trials spanning a 10-year period. Both really successful. Used a garden hose (textile/cord reinforced to prevent collapse under pressure since the hose is buried). Hosing is easier to work with than pipe since it can be formed into a free-flow shape without sharp bends. The depth depends on the freeze line - needn't be more than a decimeter in warm zones. The "diffuser" means making small holes in the hose where the urine is to be delivered. Good to use stone gravel around the area of diffusion to ensure good initial flow. Holes drilled into the hose are 0.5cm. These will over time become smaller with struvite formation but over >10 years they have never clogged. Water is never added to flush the hose. The hosing has never clogged since it is free flow from the toilet with no significant bends (ie no standing urine). The system is essentially maintenance free and has never produced odour at either end of the hosing system. The hosing is about 8 meters long. Haven't tried a branched diffuser with varying hole diameters to mimic drip-hose irrigation systems. The holes need to be larger than for above ground irrigation systems. Planting a cherry tree directly adjacent to the mouth of the buried hose proved damaging for the tree. But a couple of meters away produced a very healthy fruit-bearing tree with very green leaves. Backyard science at work!
Regards
--Arno

Hi Arno,

Please tell us more about the experiences with perforated hoses to distribute urine under the surface of the soil in Sweden. How many cases? How big? Any plans for fruit orchards or sports fields? Let me know if I can help on this. Were any trials unsuccessful?

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday

Hi Arno:
thank you for your response.
My engineer / friend has tried / tested this pipe submerged theory several times into a urine tank in the UDDT and it works really well. No bends, just a pipe held into place with an O ring at the urinal exit and close to the base of the tank. I like the cup idea also, nice.

Yes, we looked into U bends, traps, locks etc. Always going to have a problem with it - and it's more engineering and potential for end user failure - which we wan to avoid.

So, by diffuser, you don't mean an aeration device such as a stone in a fish - just holes in the pipe below the surface on substrate . okay -got it.

Thanks for the oxalic acid tip - I will look into it - Part of my BP and service package / brochure will be due diligence in keeping the toilet clean at all times by the end user ( I know - good luck with that one)

Again thanks for your feedback Arno

best regards
Michael

Hi Michael
The urine pipe or hose runs from the UD toilet into the surface soil without any major bends where urine might be able to collect (ie straight flow without any water/liquid seal or u-shape water lock). This can be several meters away from the toilet into a garden or lawn. The hose part under the soil surface acts as a diffuser wherever holes are made (0.5 cm). To prevent blocking the diffuser part is laid on gravel before being covered with more gravel and then soil (kind of a leach bed). Works well to fertilizer small lawn areas or grove of trees.

Regarding delivery of urine to a container or tank, the mouth of the urine pipe needs to be submerged at all times at the bottom of the storage tank. This will prevent any chimney effect allowing ammonia to find its way back into the toilet and toilet room. Water locks are not to be used since they will get blocked with struvite sludge. To keep the pipe opening submerged, this can be done by fixing a small cup or pail around the pipe opening. So even when the tank is emptied the cup remains full. The urine pipe needs to flow directly into the tank without any major bends or u-shaped pipes (ie no water seal or lock). Most plumbers find this sort of construction unorthodox but it is the only way to prevent pipe blockage with struvite sludge which will form in standing urine.

Try it!

PS If the urine pipe is not flowing properly due to crystal build up along the sides, an application of oxalic acid is advisable - a few teaspoons in the urine collector of the toilet. Oxalic acid is organic and stronger than acetic acid or citrate.

Hi Arno: you mentioned running the pipe through a 'diffuser' - what is your diffuser? Also, are you saying that by putting the pipe outlet from the urinal/UDDT below the 'water-line' in the urine tank that this will stop smell returning. This is something I'm working on at the moment for my own UDDT.
The ping (no) pong ball in the pipe from Florian looks simple and effective.

cheers
Michael

Upgrade your Urinals from Flush to Waterless
see: www.addicom.co.za/waterless-urinal-upgrade.html
I purchased two plastic waterless urinals from Peter Dam of Addicom, if I still remember well, maybe shipping was more expensive them urinals.
So take one home with you during next safari...


see: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/172-ur...version-toilets#3697

---

UK-made:

"Aquafree cartridges should be changed every 3 months. ..."

This is not a durable/sustainable solution in my opinion: www.waterlessurinals.co.uk/Aquafree-Cartridge-Packs.html

Hello,
We have developed Waterless Urinals for Gents ,
Please find attach Catalog for same.

Thanks Regards
Shital Sanitary
www.ruralsanitation.net

Just to share another one I found from england : Gentworks
www.waterlessurinals.co.uk/Retrofit-Systems/
And the video :


These products have an amazing potential !

Best,

Ben

Dear Arno, dear Krischan,

Thank you very much for these links, extremly interesting. I was a bit ashamed I missed the previous discussion on the subject.
Will get in contact with water saving product to buy one, will give you a review then.

I'm sure these products could be spread so quickly in every public building, every sport infrastructure, every bar, aeroport, train stations, etc ... In my city (Montpellier), the m3 is 3,1 €. I don't know yet the price of the retrofit system but the return on investment is probably less than 6 months. The ratio watersaved / investment is simply unbeatable.

I wish you very well ! This is for me another great moment of knowledge sharing in this forum, and this seed has an enormous potential where I'm from. Thanks again.

Best,

Ben

We sort of discussed this before

I think especially this solution posted by Florian looks very doable: Click here .
(but also check the rest of that thread)

Ben
Here is a retrofit plug-in from Ireland, see their website here .

Haven't tested this one.

My own solution is to run the urine pipe directly through a diffuser into the garden soil where trees and other plants are growing. There is no need for an odour trap since there is no venting possible. Alternatively one can permanently submerge the mouth of the urine pipe into the storage tank to also prevent the chimney ventilation of ammonia back up into the urinal or toilet.