Thanks for the explanation on ATADs. Despite the advantages of thermophilic process (hygenisation) for the rough emergency condition it would be too difficult to keep temperature always correct in range and it would need many start-up heating energy.

So "my" Crazy bouncy-castle ABR is a modified bladder-tank only...
Cambers walls and baffles walls inside would give the tank more stability against water pressure.

AquaVerde wrote: I do not know about ATADs? I am not THE EXPERT for Bioggas up to now

www.fuchs-germany.com/en/sewage-sludge/s...obic-digestion-atad/

This forum had a longish discussion about ATADs before (see here: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-pr...-university-usa#2979), most notably about an ongoing trial to run these with direct wind-power.

P.S.: the bottom two swimmingpools you posted basically are bladder-tanks.

Does it really have to be inflatable? Wouldn't a bladder-tank of some sort, or a series of bladder-tanks that are connected to each other by big pipes work just the same way?

not realy, the good and even mixing of fresh sewage and "old" sludge is importen HRT is short and SRT is long, therefore tank size smaller them other biogas tanks types.. good for fecal sludge treatment. easy transport on EURO-palettes and a fast & ready use is important. producing of energy for sanitation the sludge too.

But in general, I think a "passive" system like an ABR would have to be made much to large to accommodate for a sufficient retention time and the same time the huge number of users in a IDP camp for example. And capturing biogas isn't of much use in such a setting either.
At the beginning of my discoveries around ABR I had the same view!

Personally I think an relatively simple ATAD reactor should be the best solution for fecal sludge treatment in a camp setting.
I do not know about ATADs? I am not THE EXPERT for Bioggas up to now

I think it's pools you need to look at as example, not bouncing castles...

Yes, both is OK:

or


Alternative on a structure:


Both inflatable tanks and tanks on structures, without rough playing people 1.5-2m should be manageable in my educated guessing.

AquaVerde wrote: Inflatable toys, pools, and "houses" with comparable geometry are already existing and in use under very rough condition.

Hi Detlef, I think it's pools you need to look at as example, not bouncing castles, you will fill the thing with liquid, not air.
I guess this could work for free-standing units, although if too high (eg. 1.5-2m) you have quite some pressure/weight to deal with. However, I guess free standing units will not work in many situations, as the inlet will usually need to be at ground level or below (if avoiding pumping). Now, as soon as you put your rubber ABR underground, you have to deal not only with pressure from water inside, but also with pressure from soil and water from outside, which makes it structurally more difficult (see the other discussion we had).

Does it really have to be inflatable? Wouldn't a bladder-tank of some sort, or a series of bladder-tanks that are connected to each other by big pipes work just the same way?

But in general, I think a "passive" system like an ABR would have to be made much to large to accommodate for a sufficient retention time and the same time the huge number of users in a IDP camp for example. And capturing biogas isn't of much use in such a setting either.

Personally I think an relatively simple ATAD reactor should be the best solution for fecal sludge treatment in a camp setting.

[Wg8] Please send me your ideas on WG8 ---> "Open Source-Idea": Inflatable ABR for larger emergency sanitation operations?

Dear Colleagues and dear Mr. Spit,

Could this maybe a bit crazy idea of an inflatable "bouncy-castle" ABR possibly an input to WG8, as an "Open Source Idea" and a possible issue in the SUSANA forum too, to continuing discussion started by Mr. Jan Spit (# 2606) on the subject?

I would like to encourage other colleagues to bring in their "crazy" experiences/ideas too.
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/61-wg-...sposal-faecal-sludge

Best Regards,
Detlef SCHWAGER

AquaVerde

The GRP tanks of BORDA do not have to be buried, they functioning too above ground free-standing and even floating in flooded areas.


BORDA-ABR

Tanks made of GRP are relatively heavy. On-site repair and rebuild are possible without special equipment. A tank made out of PE is a bit lighter and more stable against damages. But on-site repair only possible with special welding equipment and know-how.

Both sturdy tanks have one disadvantage: If transported via plane or lorry many air have to be transported too.


"Crazy bouncy-castle idea" as "Open Source-Idea" for WG8:
Inflatable toys, pools, and "houses" with comparable geometry are already existing and in use under very rough condition.

Alternative proposal for possible transport on EURO pallets:
An inflatable double-walled square dimensional baffled tank, should be modeled based on the prefab tank of BORDA. Very flexible and robust temperature resistant textile material should be used to "produce" the necessary minimum of 4 units of baffled reactor chambers. Outside, on top and at bottom, a horizontally inflatable "sausage" should be placed and on each of 4 at the corners a vertical inflatable 'sausages' habe to be arranged.



by FH Flensburg

by AquaVerde

Somehow everything would look like a huge inflatable boat, but just a little more square. The necessary 8 inner walls (the baffles) of the 4 reactor chambers with its over-flows and under-flows could be made by walls filled with air. All this could been integrated into one big ABR-tank and can be brought by the mere inflation in place and function. Only one big sludge drain made of plastic at the first chamber could be enough. Alternative and maybe better providing to each chamber a separate sludge outlet. Via these 4 openings could also 4 separate heating pipes (25 mm PE 100 RC) put into the 4 reactor cambers connected to 4 heat exchangers made from sturdy PE too (e.g. pool equipment). The inflatable double exterior walls of ABR-tank would have an insulating impact by its own air cushion.

Gas storage: will be situated above the inflatable ABR-tank. An inflatable double-walled flexible gas storage above ABR made from plastic textile might look like a inflatable boat upside down. It is locked with the ABR.

Such an inflatable wwtp - biogas plant would be very sensitive to small bullets and knifes.

I hope I was somewhat understandable with this maybe crazy idea of an inflatable ABR?

---

Gesendet: Dienstag, 20. August 2013 um 11:10 Uhr
Von: "Jan Spit WASTE" <This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.>
An: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
Betreff: [Wg8] Please send me your ideas on WG8

The core group of the SuSanA has decided to take stock of the past, current and future activity of the working groups before the next SuSanA Meeting in Stockholm on 31 Aug 2013 and will be interviewing me Thursday about our working group activities. Hence, I ask your help in letting me know if you foresee any future activities that you would like our working group to get involved in. If you have any ideas that you would like to contribute, please send me a short message stating this idea as soon as possible (preferably by the morning of Thursday 22 Aug 2013) and cc Thilo. Thanks for your help.

Met vriendelijke groet / Kind regards

Jan Spit
Adviser Sanitation

WASTE advisers on urban environment and development
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