After having studied the hybrid shower system, there were large issues about the actual efficiency of the hybrid system (normal shower and re-cycling shower together). The manufacturer figures did not match with the real use.
For this reason I made a detailed calculation sheet in Excel (open), in which you can fill in the times of showering, the amount of water per minute for each shower, water temperatures etc.
This you need to do for both your existing system and an eventual new hybrid shower.
In the sheet it calculates the water savings, energy savings, energy costs and the differences betwee your old shower and the new hybrid.
If you also fill in the costs of installation or modification you can calculate in how many years you have recuperated the investments.
For short shower periods and economic water use in your existing shower, the hybrid shower is only more wasteful and more expensive.

The so-called Hybrid shower consists of two separate showers, one ordinary energy wastefull, non recycling shower you need to use for washing yourself and rinsing off the soap. This can be a water-saving shower. Next to it is a large rainshower you can use additionally after your ordinary shower that recycles most of the water, thus saving water and energy for that part.
The hybrid shower does not have a heat recovery system in the drain, so combining the two systems does hardly save energy or water when used as a shower for washing.
The idea is interesting, but needs to be worked out for the washing shower as well.

Amigo, nothing ever to be sorry about as I think learning takes learning!

It actually gave me a boost in finding a solution for the concrete shower I have in the casa I am renting. I can plug up the drain and suck that water into my greywater system and then through the RO and Silecte disinfection again and back in reuse again without having to deal with the drainage plumbing!

Thanks for the Help!

The Rain Man

Hi, Clint,
I investigated the hybrid (e.g. Upfallshower) further, and came to the conclusion that is a luxory gadget to create a wellness feeling, that can only be used after you have used the common shower to wash yourself and rinse off the soap etc.
The hybrid item is therefore not really something for low-income or developing countries. The technology of recycling shower water in a hybrid shower system is interesting and can possibly be used for cold water showers after washing is finished.
Many people wash themselves in rivers that are also not 100% drinking water quality.

Hi, Clint. You are almost correct with the observations, but the UV treatment is only part of the filtering/purifyin process.
Actually, since you are showering in your own water, the UV steralisation or desinfection does not seem to be very relevant to me. Generally it would not be the case that someone else would be continuing to shower under your showerwater.
I think an important issue is that it is only the reuse of your own shower water. When you pee in the shower, the reuse of that water means that that urine is also recycled. In such a case it is better to switch the hybrid off and use the normal or standard shower where all water is drained away.
I have no commercial interest in this matter; I was only mentioning the important water (and energy) saving aspects; this is especially so when having long shower periods with large amounts of water.
Because so much water is wasted, the sewerage becomes very liquid and increase the processing costs.

Sir,

I reviewed the Upfallshower website and I would not shower in a system that relies on UV for disinfection and whatever filters for filtering out everything that can happen in a shower. UV is not the panacea of disinfection, ozone is total disinfection!

And filtration of what kind of water in the first place. City, well, rain, reverse osmosis!! Too many variables and who maintains the UV and the filters and how often? What kind of filters, sediment, what micron, carbon, what gets the soap out? How? Lots of TDS in soap!!

When we utilize all of our systems, to include aerobic, ozone, settling, RO and quantum disinfection we recover 100% with less problem areas and a lot more assurance.

Just another pretty picture of a new idea at a Trade Show with no history!!

I see I was not clear about the hybrid shower water.
It is not recycling after draining, but it is direct reuse the same shower water, after it has been filtered and UV treated. When the hybrid function is switched on, only about 10% is drained and only 10% new/fresh water is needed to compensate heat-loss and continue the showering process.
That 10 % becomes ordinary waste water and can be conventionally recycled.
It has been observed in Brasil, that the changing habit of now taking long showers is affecting negatively the municipal capacity to supply the required massive amounts of water. Shower water is with laundry water the main consumption.
The new hybrid shower technology appears to be very interesting for all desert type countries.
The new technology is applied now by the hybrid shower system, as posted under the resource recovery topic.

The amount of solids in the sewerage is decreasing with the use of showers and the promotion of hygiene. It seems that younger people take more and more time in the shower, apparently a manner of relaxation. Drinking and shower water in most countries is subsidised as essential and basic human right. The introduction of water-saving showerheads and puls-showers reduce the water and heat requirements. However, with ever more people on this planet connected to the water mains, the water consumption and water drainage increases.
The mechanical sewerage purification systems work best with a higher solids percentage. This can be achieved by separating urine from feaces, dry toilets and two-volume flush systems, but foremost by recycling showers.

While watching an Episode on TV from the series "Star Trek" the children on earth were asking questions of the crew regarding what they did with the toilet "stuff" in space.

The Chief engineer explained that ALL of the toilet and organic resources were plumbed to the "Bio-Matter Resequencing Converter" (BMRC), where utilizing some form of transformation were converted into reusable resources to be recycled on board the "Enterprise".

Without any further explanation it was quite obvious that the plumbing on board future spaceships was SEPARATED and that the Toilet Stuff and the Organic Stuff went to one technological processor and the remaining "Greywater" from ALL other wastewater (resource water) sources (to include the small amount from showers, a dirtier amount from the kitchen and a larger amount from the laundry) were all processed and recycled onboard in a separate methodology.

Our technology has two pipes. Toilets and the kitchen garbage disposal, utilizing less that .2 of a gallon of water per flush including the garbage disposal, utilizing one pipe are plumbed to the Bio-Matter Resequencing Converter (BMRC), which in our case is 4' h x 4' l x 8' w for a normal family of 4 - 5 persons.

Once we start utilizing such technologies in space I am quite sure the overall size will be reduced and will accommodate many more souls onboard.

Our second pipe collects ALL greywater (even though Colorado and some engineers think the BOD is to high to be able to treat sufficiently, but they are wrong) and treats it utilizing extend aeration with ozone first, second the settling of the now sterilized water and remaining hydrocarbons and then processes it with the 1:1 reverse osmosis generation greywater filtration technology. The permeate we further process in the newly invented Quantum Electron Disinfection system to insure total destruction of any other potential bad stuff that might make a person ill.

Even though most RO people discharge the concentrate we redirect it back to the beginning of the process and milk as much permeate out of the water again to achieve a 90% recovery of ALL of the greywater. Even though the 10% is now high in TDS (over 2,000) it is still usable for other purposes, such as flushing the .2 gallon per flush toilets.

Even though this spaceship technology would utilize a communal approach to solving a human existence need in space, it is our FIRM belief that on Earth it is mathematically, environmentally and economically more efficient and effective to have multiple systems (individual homes and/or businesses, communal shower houses with multiple systems, etc.) than trying to have everyone line up to one HUGE thing and then try to deal with all of the different introductions of whatever into it.

Recycling shower water is easy, but there is not much of it. Laundry water is significant and is also quite easy to recycle. When you get to the kitchen sink and the dishwasher things get a little more intense, BUT the dilution factor of combining ALL greywater offsets the assumption that the BOD in the kitchen cannot be effectively treated as greywater.

Colorado is incorrect in their assumptions and maybe should research some of our greywater test data from Olmsted County, Rochester, MN over 20 years ago without even utilizing ozone then.

Even though most of you do not have experience with ozone, I would suggest that the use of inexpensively produced and controlled ozone will solve many more health and water born issues than UV and any chemicals can even think about.

Note by moderator: This post was initially in this thread about the Omni-processor in Dakar: forum.susana.org/component/kunena/53-fae...now-in-dakar-senegal
++++++++++

The omniprocessor is certainly an interesting apparatus, but it does what nature does naturally, requiring much more space and time.
When minimizing the equipment it can be installed in spaceships, or this is actually a large scale machine version for what is already in the space station.
I feel that the topic can be also posted under the resource recovery and recycling.
Another resource loss is shower water. With simple equipment over 75 % of shower water can be recycled. This will substantially reduce the demand for water and the amount of wasted water and drained away heat when warm water is used.
See the relevant posting on the resource recovery topic. (forum.susana.org/component/kunena/40-gre...-shower-upfallshower)
Also here the problems will be: what does it cost?, how can it be replicative in large numbers? Can it be used in schools to improve hygiene?.

Showers use a lot of water, which is drained off. When warm water is used, also the heat is lost unless a heat recovery system has been installed.
To combat water and heat wastage showerwater can be recycled when filtered. 200 years ago the first showers also had a recycling pump. The system has been improved with filters and UV water treatment, wasting only 10% of the shower water. The 10% new water is hot water to keep the water temperature warm. The hybrid shower recycles 90% of the water, thus saving 90% of the water and energy requirements.
For tropical countries only a cold watersystem can be made.

For more information see attachment with English language explanation: www.upfallshower.com/en/ Note: this is an advertisement and contains several exagerated assumptions.