Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in tourist area, Carpathian mountains, Ukraine (now operational)

  • JKMakowka
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum toilet (Clivus Minimus)

Wolfgang Berger wrote: Toilet room design for disabled people is very extensive, so that the Compost toilet book just shows some project examples. Helpful may be the following link (in English) that takes stairs and ramps into account: www.environ.ie/en/Publications/Developme...DownLoad,1655,en.pdf


A good start is also the following book: wedc-knowledge.lboro.ac.uk/details.html?id=16357 (can be downloaded as .pdf)

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  • BPopov
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum toilet (Clivus Minimus)

Hello Wolfgang!

Got your book delivered today! There is an incredible ammount of knowedge. There is something to study for me for the next week.



We stopped now with building because of the heavy rains and other problems (associated with situation in the country) but going to continue next week.

Best wishes,

Bogdan

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  • BPopov
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in Ukraine (questions on air duct system)

Hello everyone!

In spite of many problem encountered this year in Ukraine due to the war and economics we managed to finish the public compost toilet in the mountains by the New Year. There is still lot to do -- hand washing, urinals -- but the basic system is completed. Hope the operation starts sometime in January.
There are many things in this toilet I would personally make differently (especially user interface) -- but this would be the task for the next projects in the Carpathians. Anyway -- thanks everyone here for the advice especially Wolfgang Berger!

Bogdan Popov
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  • BPopov
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in Ukraine (questions on air duct system)

Hello Everyone!

So here is the small report about the first year in the life of our Sinevir compost toilet.

The toilet started it operation on the 1’st May with quite a big everyday load right at the beginning – about 300-500 visitors a day which lasted for about 10 days. Then we a had a normal operation with about 50 visitors a day on average with maybe 200-300 sometimes on weekends.
I must say the toilet works extremely well --I didn’t expect this kind of performance with the first public compost toilet I designed and built in my life. Same for the owner and the visitors. No smell at all. Very little maintenance from the stuff comparable to the normal public water toilet. The toilet itself became famous in the region and people come specially to the Pass to see it.

The problems as informed by the staff -- people look for the handle or button to flush the water but can’t find it. It think I put a fake one that imitates the sound of flushing water. Some people complain that no pedestal available and it is hard for them to squat. I think about some kind of chair with hole available in the toilet at demand to put over the squat hole.
Some people complain the toilet costs money to visit. But we deliberately left the free pit privy nearby for those guys. On the other hand many (after they come out from the toilet) say they understand why it costs money since they liked the comfort it offers. Some people say they didn’t expect that in the middle of nowhere they find comfort hardly available in big Ukrainian cities public toilet
The chambers are about 1\4 full but the tourist season is nearly over. Let’s see what the volume it takes by the next spring.

I feel quite happy. Ukraine is in deep crap at the moment but at least it has one good toilet which in some ways shows the way out to better furture.

Bogdan Popov
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in Ukraine (questions on air duct system)

Dear Bogdan,

Thank you very much for these regular updates about your composting toilet in the Ukraine! That's really great how over the course of more than a year you have given us regular updates, from the start of the design to the construction and then inauguration and operation. Thank you!

I have some small questions:
  1. I am a bit confused as in your earlier post you had shown us a photo with a toilet seat (bench) whereas the new photos show a squatting toilet. Is that at two different locations? How do you decide whether to put in a seat/bench or a squatting pan?
  2. What was the overall cost of construction and who financed it, was it your own company?
  3. How much do you charge for using the toilet and do you have a toilet attendant there at all times (during opening hours)?
  4. Are you planning to build more of these toilets in other tourist areas in the region? Are other people already thinking of replicating your design?
  5. Can you also show us photos of inside of the composting chamber? How long before you have to empty it and what would you do with the compost?
  6. What do you do with the urine from the urinals and are they waterless urinals?
Regards,
Elisabeth

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  • BPopov
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in Ukraine (questions on air duct system)

Dear Elisabeth!
Thank you for your interest!
The toilet was very my the result of my interaction with the owner of the toilet Anton Dorosh. He put there many his own good ideas together with money.
Now I will try to answer the questions one by one.
1. My original idea was to have squat holes but that was initially rejected by Anton and he made first the tile covered benches which you saw on the pictures last year. We both didn’t really liked the result. Later Anton changed his mind, removed the benches and put the squat pans (the factory made ceramic water pans called Genoa bowls where he cut the wholes for the chute). I liked this idea very much and this works great.
2. He overall cost is hard to say for me – it’s kind of Anton’s secret who ran the building and financed everything. I was only designing the composting compartments mainly. But I would assume that total cost is around 9-10 thousands EUR.
3. Anton put the price 3 hrivnas for entrance (around 12 cents at the moment). There is a lady attendant all the time who receives the money from visitors, provides cleaning and adds wood shavings. She gets 125 hrivnas a day (5 EUR)
4. I would be so happy if I could build more of these toilet in the Carpathians! And I heard from Anton that other recreation sites owner in the region started to ask him about the toilet construction . But the overall economic situation in Ukraine at the moment is very bad because of war so I am not sure if it is possible apart from in a donor driven format (which is a project I am working currently upon). I am working now on a much simpler and cheaper design of the toilet for my friends who run a culture centre near Mukachevo.
5. I will try to make photos of the compost chamber next time I go to the location. From what I see it seems like we will have to empty the toilet once a year. Unfortunately no one is interested to use the compost as a fertilizer so we just spread it in the forest down slope from toilet.
6. The urinals are automatic water urinals with sensors. The outflow goes to the septic tank and then constructed wetland we built nearby which serves for treating waste water from the guest house also owned by Anton. However I also plan to divert it to the forest.

Bogdan Popov
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in Ukraine (questions on air duct system)

Hey BPopov, thank you for that interesting post!
One thing I cannot find in diagrams about this design is if there is a use of a net beneath the vent, above the slop so separate the composting material and the fully composted material.
If there is, what material did you build it from and how dense should it be?
Thank you
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in Ukraine (questions on air duct system)

Dear Pjeterschorstein!

In that particular toilet there is no net separating the fresh and composted material. However in the next toilets I will build I will probably put it.

Regards,

Bogdan

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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in Ukraine (questions on air duct system)

So it would in your opinion work better with a net separating?
From what material do you think of building it and in which deancety?
I was thinking about supported metal grid mash use for concrete walls, maybe two of those to make it more dance and cover with anti- rust paint.
Do you think that should work?
Thank you
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Re: Self built Clivus Multrum composting toilet (Clivus Minimus) - in Ukraine (questions on air duct system)

I wouldn't use metal mesh in contact with fecal material.

Bogdan Popov
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