Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Hi Jenna, is your network specifically for "urine concentration" work or for any kind of urine reuse? Just checking because Robert's work is interesting but doesn't include urine concentration, right?

And thanks for sharing the video about the new urine diversion toilet by Laufen. Here is also a link to their website: www.laufen.com/news-stories/save-smart-sanitation-2

I am wondering what prompted Laufen to bring out this urine diversion flush toilet. Have they noticed an uptick in demand? What do their customers do with the collected urine? Or is it more of a promotional project, perhaps funded by BMGF and not meant to be financially viable? Do you know how much this toilet costs?
I was involved with research involving the Roedinger NoMix toilet  (another urine diversion flush toilet) back in 2008-2012 but that toilet ended up being a failure and was discontinued. 

Regards,
Elisabeth
Dr. Elisabeth von Muench
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Hello Jenna

On my side in France we do not use a diversionary toilet.
I am concerned about latent urine clogging.
And a diversion toilet does not completely prevent cross-contamination with feces.

We use simple plastic bottles to urinate directly into.
Bottles are free. We close the cap after.
I just installed a bucket for urine bottles next to the conventional toilets.
The total cost of this collection facility is less than € 5.

There is no possible cross contamination.

To prevent odors, urine is used from bottles in the garden or spread under our trees almost every day.

For urine transformation the bottles system can be emptied in a collection tank ( 10L  to 20 L or more) for transportation to the next process facility. Again rinsing collection tank after each use prevent odor.

The bottles are rinsed each time they are emptied and they can be reused for several weeks. 

We often change bottles because empty plastic bottles are everywhere.
For women, the use of an adaptor allows the same system to be used.
I designed the SYMBIO collector currently under test.

See pictures

Robert Cossette

Comment by moderator: Further information on this approach is here .
Robert Cossette

solar-dripper.com
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  • Jsenecal
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

We (Swedish university of Agricultural sciences) have installed two urine-diverting Save! Toilets (designed by EOOS and manufactured by Laufen) as the front-end solution to our back-end technology and I get a lot of people asking how does it work?

Here's a video by Laufen (
).

I know #EAWAG , in Switzerland, have installed several too. So far I have only heard good things about the Save! Toilets. Does anyone know of other installations and have comments on their experience/performance?
_____________________________________
Jenna Senecal, PhD.
Environmental Engineering Grp.
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Research: blogg.slu.se/kretsloppsteknik/
Company: sanitation360.se

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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Thanks for sharing this!
_____________________________________
Jenna Senecal, PhD.
Environmental Engineering Grp.
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Research: blogg.slu.se/kretsloppsteknik/
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Good idea.

In our test garden I used diluted urine and Vuna AURIN Swiss Concentrate with similar results.
The application is precise with the Solar-Dripper.
We had remarkable sugar levels (12.2 °Bx) and very large production last year.
The tests are ongoing this year with Kong F1 Sunflowers, squash and corn.

We are now selling complete tool kit for R&D test gardens and schools  at 212 € for 68 plants with an adjustable drench gun, bottles and 2 baskets.
The Solar-Dripper is compatible with any type of urine concentrates or chemical fertilizers for comparison.

The drench gun is ajustable from 0 to 70 ml of urine or concentrate for fast and repeatable tests.

Come for a Visit in Annecy near Geneva !

Robert Cossette +33 6 76 94 27 97

solar-dripper.com/en/how-to-use-urine-fertilizer/
solar-dripper.com/en/world-water-week-2019/
solar-dripper.com/en/drip-irrigation-efficiency/
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  • Jsenecal
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Hi Elisabeth,

Thanks for your questions. Jennifer is currently on vacation, so I will share my thoughts:
1- I see SuSanA and LinkedIn playing different roles. On this forum we have discussions with people who are often deep into the subject matter and I use this forum as a network for finding out information or support, which has been super useful. While on LinkedIn, I mostly use it for sharing quick up-dates about the progress of a project -> where outreach includes people who don't necessarily know about the needs and benefits of improved sanitation. LinkedIn has helped our company gain interesting leads. And yes LinkedIn is easier to make quick posts. With SuSanA, there is slightly more navigation to do and more to think about when making a post (such as is this in the ideal/correct category).

2- About the location of this thread - it is difficult as I think there will be discussions around the technology and the reuse.

Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Jenna
_____________________________________
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Environmental Engineering Grp.
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Research: blogg.slu.se/kretsloppsteknik/
Company: sanitation360.se

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  • Elisabeth
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Hi Jennifer,

This sounds very interesting. You wrote:

Is there interest in this community for building a network of actors working with urine concentration? I have started a LinkedIn group that can be a discussion and networking platform (Urine Concentration @ LinkedIn) – welcome to join!
We can also continue the conversation on this Forum thread. 

I am always interested how people use different platforms for communication and networking. Therefore my question: what do you perceive as the benefits of a new LinkedIn group compared to using this forum? E.g. is the LinkedIn group easier to use on a mobile phone? Or is it advantageous for those posts that people don't want to be "out in the open"? I am curious. I hope your group goes well and that you continue to also share / cross-post to here.

And one more question: I noticed you placed this thread under the sub-category "urine reuse". Doesn't it fit better in the sub-category on "urine treatment" as urine concentration is a form of treatment? I mean this sub-category: forum.susana.org/urine-treatment
(although I did notice that that one is under "toilets with urine diversion"; perhaps that's not ideal because it's too limiting? I could move that sub-category to be within this one " Treatment of wastewater, sludges, organic waste, excreta ")

Regards,
Elisabeth
Dr. Elisabeth von Muench
Freelance consultant on environmental and climate projects
Located in Ulm, Germany
This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.
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  • Jsenecal
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Yes, willing to ship! Thanks for your connections (:
_____________________________________
Jenna Senecal, PhD.
Environmental Engineering Grp.
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Research: blogg.slu.se/kretsloppsteknik/
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  • Heiner
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

You would send your barley to Germany then??
Because I can only ask here, I know nothing and nobody in sweden.....
But if you want, I know a guy here who should know everything about small scale testing laboratories.

Heiner 
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Hi again,

The acceptable protein range from the brewer we're working with is 9,5-11,5%. So let's see how we fair!

Curious, do you (or anyone else) know of a place that can malt barley in small batches (10-30 kg)? The places I am connecting with work with 1-4 ton batches. We're not there yet.

Cheers,
Jenna 
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Environmental Engineering Grp.
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Research: blogg.slu.se/kretsloppsteknik/
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Haha brilliant - thanks! I will double-check with our local brewer on project about what their acceptable protein range is. I guess we could add compost with the fertilizer at the beginning of the planting season to accelerate the conversion of urea to ammonia. Getting even more excited about sharing our results from the coming harvest (:

Skol!
Jenna 
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Environmental Engineering Grp.
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Research: blogg.slu.se/kretsloppsteknik/
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  • Heiner
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Re: Urine concentration (building a network of actors working with urine concentration)

Hi Jenna,

it all depends.......

but let's start to calculate: if you expect a harvest of 4 t per hectare and your barley has 12% total Protein then you will export 77 kg N/ ha (16% N in Protein). There is always a little loss (some is fixed to humus, some goes in the air, some in the groundwater. Depending on temperature an rainfall).
So 100 kg is enough, 150 kg by far too much!
But.... if the majority is in form of urea it becomes complicated. The temperature in the soil and the availability of water is essential to activity of the bacteria to transform urea to ammonia and ammonia to nitrate. And barley needs mainly nitrate. So this process takes time and the barley will lack nitrogen in the beginning and get a goof shot at the end.  UNluckywise this means a high content of Protein (12-13%??) what the breweries usually dislike very much. The maximum my  breweries accepted was 11%.
But perhaps in your case there are different standards. If I remember right (years back....) the main reason for the wanted low content of protein was the wanted long durability.
If you drink it very fast and itdoesn't become old, it might be fine.

So give it a go and drink as fast as you can! You swedish guys are known for this behavior anyway ;-) ;-) ;-)

skol! Heiner
Heiner, the old farmer.....
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