Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

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  • scottchen
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

 Dear Heiner:
Please read my answers to your questions in Italics.
When you use fresh urine, how do you prevent the loss of nitrogen (better ammonia)?
We do not use fresh urine within 15 days. The urine is kept in a closed container undermeath the toilet for preventing the loss of nitrogen.

Do you adjust the PH value?
No,we do not adjust the PH value as we always dilute the urine with 
10-20 times water for vegetables. There is no value to change the PH value.


Or do you accept a little loss?
Yes,we accept a little loss. When we apply the urine to the apple trees, a little ammonia would flee to the air.

Store it in locked container?
Yes, always.

In Germany we right now discuss the introduction of urine separating toilets which will cost quite a bit money. So  ideas of saving as much nitrogen as possible are important. During wintertime it is not allowed to use any nitrogen fertiliser so we have to store it for 5-6 months.
I think it is better to use charcoal to absorb the nutients all the time and return the charcoal to the soil even in the winter. Storing urine for 5-6 months costs too much.
Therefore we look for solutions to save every kilogram of nitrogen. 
The general manager of SHEN ZHEN BLUE WATERS AND GREEN MOUNTAINS LTD , the sole importer of Separett AB waterless toilets in China.
Chen Xiang Yang, an apple dealer,is growing apples and cherries with the human waste collected from 31 school UDDTs donated by SOHO China Foundation, based in Tianshui City, Gansu Province , China. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., tel:0086 151 9380 3972
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  • hoffma
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

I am a little lost, could anyone explain what these answers refer to? Sounds interesting, but I don't find the initial discussion on this topic.

Thanks
Heike
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  • paresh
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

Dear Heike,
You could see the video in Scott's post dated 27th December in this thread to get some idea. 

Regards
paresh
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

Dear Scott,
Thanks for posting the video and answering questions. I like your idea of sourcing urine from schools and other institutional settings. Agree that it is easiest and most cost-effective way. 

Yet going through the video and the posts and answers in this thread, I do not completely understand processes involved in using urine in  of agriculture. You mention that the urine needs to be diluted.  Is it true for urine used to soak  biochar/bamboo charcoal? On the contrary, the truck directly empties urine near the apple trees.  

It would be great if you could describe the process according to the steps you follow.

Thanks
paresh
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  • Ecowaters
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

What biochar and charcoal (two related but different products) do is fix the nitrogen with carbon so nitrogen losses are less and it is converted to a bioavailable form for plants.
You could also do this with sugar, molasses, etc.

Biochar, which is carbon biomass pyrolized in an oxygen-free environment (that is how it differs from charcoal), provides carbon but has its structure in place, which helps create aerobic pockets for the urine to be transformed.

I am guessing that biochar and charcoal also alkalinize the urine but I haven't tested that. I will try that this week.
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

Hi, Paresh:
We do not dilute the urine with water for the apple trees as it is quite expensive to transport water to the orchard.
And the urine stays in the closed tank for a month at least and there is no harm to the trees after the application.
We have been doing this over 8 years.
But, for vegetables , we must dilute the urine with water.
Charcoal and biochar with urine can improve the efficiency of urine obviously. 
The purpose of my test with bamboo charcoal is to help the farmers  earn money from the bamboo and improve the soil being hurt by chemical fertilizers.
best wishes
chen xiang yang
The general manager of SHEN ZHEN BLUE WATERS AND GREEN MOUNTAINS LTD , the sole importer of Separett AB waterless toilets in China.
Chen Xiang Yang, an apple dealer,is growing apples and cherries with the human waste collected from 31 school UDDTs donated by SOHO China Foundation, based in Tianshui City, Gansu Province , China. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., tel:0086 151 9380 3972
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  • Heiner
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

Dear Chen,
in addition to the information you gave us I have a somewhat different question. The separation and use of urine sounds to me as a very progressive and climate friendly way of disposal and nutrient recovery at the same time. Since China is a very (if not most) important country in the world your management strategies have quite a bit impact to our environment. How is the present situation in your country? Are more and more public or private building choosing the way of Urine reuse? And is it more a rural approach or are there architects and urban planner who pick up your ideas? Or are different methods for nutrient recovery practiced in the big cities? Where is the trend going?

Thanks for answer and have a nice day,


Heiner
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

I cross-posted this discussion on twitter and received an interesting video from S Vishwanath aka Zenrainman

 

Prof. Dr. Srinivasamurty from GKVK, Bangalore explain the experiment to enrich biochar by soaking it with human urine. He discusses the process and also explains how they are trying to overcome alkaline nature of the mix and prevent loss of nitrogen. The advantages include added carbon content to the soil, and  improving the soil's physical, chemical and biological quality. The slow release of carbon and carbon sequestration also contributes to climate mitigation and adaptation.  

His related research publication is "Human Urine an Alternative to Chemical Fertilizers in Crop Production" ( link )

Regards
paresh






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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

Paresh,
Thank you very much for showing us the the resarch done by Prof.  Dr. Srinivasamurty  from  GKVK, the experiment to enrich biochar by soaking it with human urine. 
It is so encouraging that I would like to repeat this experiment at a larger scale.
I have followed your twitter.
Thanks
chen xiang yang
The general manager of SHEN ZHEN BLUE WATERS AND GREEN MOUNTAINS LTD , the sole importer of Separett AB waterless toilets in China.
Chen Xiang Yang, an apple dealer,is growing apples and cherries with the human waste collected from 31 school UDDTs donated by SOHO China Foundation, based in Tianshui City, Gansu Province , China. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., tel:0086 151 9380 3972
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

Heiner:
You have asked a very good question.
China has a huge impact on the world as we have the largest demand of food ,water, milk powder and everything. Ecosan toilets should be popular in China. Unfortunately, it is not. The toilet policy makers and normal people are still stick to the conventional  waste water treatment plants.
I have been marketing Ecosan toilets in China since 2008. Only 2000 pcs have been sold. In 2020, I started the experiment of Ecotoilets + organic farming in Hang Zhou city where 2022 Asian Games to take place.  Many people are coming to learn what I am doing and introduce business opportunities to me. Two orders to be received very soon.

Best wishes
Scott
The general manager of SHEN ZHEN BLUE WATERS AND GREEN MOUNTAINS LTD , the sole importer of Separett AB waterless toilets in China.
Chen Xiang Yang, an apple dealer,is growing apples and cherries with the human waste collected from 31 school UDDTs donated by SOHO China Foundation, based in Tianshui City, Gansu Province , China. This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it., tel:0086 151 9380 3972
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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

Hi Heike,
I am just wondering if the confusion that you had expressed here has been clarified?:

I am a little lost, could anyone explain what these answers refer to? Sounds interesting, but I don't find the initial discussion on this topic.

I am wondering if it happened for you (and others?) because the link lead you to Page 2 of the discussion thread and you hadn't seen Page 1. There are small page numbers at the top and bottom of the thread that take you to the different pages of the thread. Just saying in case your or others are not aware of those.

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Re: Bamboo charcoal with urine shows us immediate effectiveness

Dear Scott,

You had written a post which was unfortunately corrupted due to an incorrect method of adding an image to the post.* Therefore, I had to delete your post. It had started like this:

++++++++++

Hi, Elisabeth:
What we have done is to prove the effectiveness of the Terra Preata Sanitation proposed by Professor Otterphol.
On Oct 1st 2020, we built a public toilet with Separett Villa 9000 UDDT and Urimat waterless urinals. 
On Oct 11th, we planted the vegetables in the field with bamboo charcoal soaked in the urine for a week.
The vegetables grow much faster than those with  only urine as the fertilizer.
We have started to eat the vegetables since early Feb.

+++++++++++

Would you like to repost the full text and any images? Thanks.

Regards,
Elisabeth

* Here is an explanation of how such an image corruption occurs here in the Forum:
normally that happens if an image was not uploaded and maybe just copied a image maybe from Word and paste it directly to the editor
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