Carl,
Thanks for the clarification...makes a lot of sense. I suggest that you have a specific look when you did a presentation which might be specifically interesting, after some time. I´m well aware that you are forced to repeat almost the same presentation in various occasions … but from time to time it might be good to put up a reference presentation …it helps us (viewers) to understand better the thinking of the organization… and therefore hopefully leads to better focused proposals as well.
So if you have a nice update on the view of the foundation towards sanitation (I realized a stronger look on institutional settings).. you are most welcome.

yours
Christoph

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Note by moderator: This thread is now closed. Further discussion on the same topic is in this thread: forum.susana.org/139-information-about-b...s-s-grand-challenges

Christoph:

Thank you for your kind words on the presentation, especially as it one of the first that I gave after joining the Foundation. I appreciate that you would like notice of this type of web posting, unfortunately when going to a conference or meeting we typically do not have control over the posting of presentations. I believe that all of us in the Gates WSH Team make the assumption that any of our presentations will be posted, but it is up to the meeting organizers where and when they will be posted. As a result, we really couldn't tell you if something does get posted or not. Often we only know about them when good folks, such as yourself, send the links to us.

Cheers

Carl

Hi,
today I came across an interesting talk of Carl Hensman. I would like to share it with you.



He talks about some results of the reinvent the toilet approaches and the idea behind it. I find it very clear it´s about 20 min even though it says 30 min.

Just a slight critic to the Gates foundation and to Carl. If you do a talk which might be interesting for the Susana comunity..... why don´t you announce it after putting it up? I did at least miss it.

Yours
Christoph

To see the list of projects that were exhibited at the Reinvent the Toilet Fair in Seattle at the Gates Foundation (which I also attended) please take a look at the programme brochure which is now available in the SuSanA library here:
www.susana.org/lang-en/library?view=ccbktypeitem&type=2&id=1636

In addition on the same page is a collection of excellent fact sheets showing how the specific sanitation solution fits the criteria stipulated in the grantee programme. Both files can be downloaded from the link above.

--Arno Rosemarin/SEI

FYI - BBC article discussing the 'reinvent the toilet challenge', including brief discussions of the recent prize winners (the solar powered toilet - which I see is generating some discussion here):

www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-19873478

regards

Neil

RowanBarber wrote: How have telecomunications companies succeeded to convince most people of the economic and social benefits of telephones and we cannot convince people of the economic, social and environmental benefits of sustainable, designated places to defecate and/or urinate...?

Jeroen also recently asked this question (we're all wondering about). My answer is here: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-mis...ne-applications#1511

In short, I believe the difference is: mobility. Mobile phones are mobile, most toilets aren't. It probably also has a lot to do with marketing, and that we still haven't found the "hot button" to the repitillian brain when it comes to toilet marketing (the Japanese have done so, btw, with their washlets).

I have been reading through the posts on this topic and it makes me wonder....

How have telecomunications companies succeeded to convince most people of the economic and social benefits of telephones and we cannot convince people of the economic, social and environmental benefits of sustainable, designated places to defecate and/or urinate...?

Hi Juergen,

For me the solar, even if probably perfectly workable in a technical sense, is another example of how some of the solutions seem to go against the spirit of the challenge. If I recall correctly the suggestion at the start of the challenge was pretty much that off-grid meant with no electrical input. For instance in one presentation there was this message about the thermodynamics of the process showing that it could be energy neutral.

Cool that they are making solar panels in Kenia now, we need that here in Nepal:-). For next winter they project two 9 hour power-cuts per day.

It is good that we can discuss the projects here, it would just be nice if there was a platform through which the BMGF would actually interact with "practitioners" in stead of leaving us speculating .

Regards

Marijn

Hi Marijn,
I agree with your concerns and also find it a bit strange that most solutions we've heard about so far are focused on water treatment - and not on what's actually flushed down a toilet. Also, the miso test sausages (even though they are part of the official norm test for toilets) can't deliver the full picture.

I'd like to defend the solar approach though, because I guess they are looking at countries like Kenya where grid power is unavailable or unreliable so that many upcountry folks in Kenya have meanwhile resorted to solar panels which are hooked up to a (used car) battery. A solar panel also serves as a "multi-purpose machine" as it can recharge mobile phones or power something else that will be used to generate income. In fact, there's a (Dutch CEO!) company in Kenya already producing solar panels from imported silicium debris. The market leader is SunTech from China though. So solar panels are already widely available in those target markets and approved products. My understanding is that BMGF is looking at East Africa in particular.

And yes, it would be great to have an open platform where we can discuss these technologies and/or have more inventors openly sharing their approaches, but obviously, they come from a different background where such a point of view isn't part of the package and/or they are restricted by/afraid of IPR. I am glad that we have this forum here and don't have to use e.g. YouTube's comment section where we'd also be dealing with the usual pee & poo trolls. Still, BMGF would be well advised to allow a more open dialogue, especially since most forum members here are practitioners with an imagineering point of view.

There seems to be some progress in the direction the challenge is developing, in the sense that they also want to address the issues of pre-digested sludge and that they now call on applicants to consider all the other stuff that goes down toilets.

It is too bad that there is so little information being made available on how the processes that are being researched work. The way things are presented thus far I get the feeling that actually none or very few of the solutions pioneered follow the design brief as in the challenge statement.

For example, solutions need to be off grid, but then a solar panel is allowed? How do they defend that? Solar voltage take is still more expensive then grid power in almost any place. To me saying you want to be off grid and then award a solution with a solar panel as the winner seems very strange.

Also with the Nano membrane toilet mentioned above, as far as I understand they will not deliver a product that is bio-safe. The briquettes they propose to make are essentially untreated thickened sludge. So unless I am missing something mayor in their texts they are not safe for re-use in agriculture, especially when we consider worm eggs.

As I am sure at least one person at BMGF is reading these posts, I would like to call on them to create an on-line platform where they share information and come to a dialogue on why they sometimes seem to go against their own design briefs. For many of us working in sanitation it would be a very interesting if the challenges would be more transparent and open source. I think ultimately that the groups involved in the challenge would also benefit from a more open approach.

Kind regards

Marijn Zandee

Here's another project with an onsite sanitation proposal: The Nano Membrane Toilet

==> water & sludge briquettes as end products, vacuum pump to be manually operated by toilet user

www.nanomembranetoilet.org/index.php

Great approach, imo, but what I don't like is this:

The polymer to be sprayed will be ε-caprolactone and will also incorporate a nanomaterial with bactericidal properties (e.g. Ag or TiO2). This will establish a physical barrier between the sludge and the environment as well as killing some of the bacteria.

Also, I wonder how many UDDTs the fund could have financed (like the one by Woo Woo, the latest SuSanA partner org www.waterlesstoilets.co.uk/).

Round 3 has just been announced:

Request for LOI: Reinvent the Toilet Challenge,
Round 3
RFP Number: SOL1071002
Open Date: October 1, 2012
Proposals Due: November 8, 2012 by 11:00pm PST
WSH Program Goal
The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation’s Water, Sanitation & Hygiene team is working with partners to develop sustainable sanitation services that work for everyone. Our approach aims to expand the use of sanitation that does not connect to a sewer, as this is by far the most common type used by the poor. We invest in effective approaches that help end open defecation and unsafe sanitation and we help develop the tools and technologies that will increase access to sustainable non-piped sanitation for the urban poor.
The Sanitation Challenge
A large share of the solids and liquids people eat and drink are passed on in urine and feces. Human waste contains potentially valuable and recyclable resources such as water, energy, urea, and minerals. It also consists of large amounts of useful as well as harmful microorganisms, mostly bacteria, as well as pathogens ranging in size from viruses to helminthes. Many diseases are passed on from person to person through the fecal-oral pathway—pathogens in one person’s waste end up ingested by another. For some diseases, this is the primary transmission pathway; for others, it is one of several transmission pathways. Human waste also contains residues of the many complex, engineered chemicals people use, such as food additives, antibiotics, hormones, and nutritional supplements, some of which remain in the environment and result in unsafe accumulation in waste sinks.
Goal of This Request for Letters of Inquiry
The third round of the Reinvent the Toilet Challenge is designed to prototype a means of dealing effectively and cost-efficiently with human waste for the 2.5 billion people on earth who currently lack access to safe and affordable sanitation.
Successful applicants will participate in the next phase of the Reinvent the Toilet Challenge by designing, prototyping and testing entirely stand-alone, self-contained, practical sanitation modules which intake bodily wastes or fecal sludge collected from pit latrines and septic tanks and swiftly dispose of them without any incoming water piping, outgoing sewer piping or electric or gas utility services. These modules must intake all outputs of the serviced population – ultimately at single-residence scales (smaller-scale individual family toilet solutions) or group of households (larger-scale neighborhood fecal sludge processor solutions)– with minimal module footprints and assured biosafety. The anticipated capital and operational cost for the final products (commercial units) is expected to be less than $0.05/user/day, both for the family and neighborhood solutions. The design should anticipate the effects and fate of complementary sanitary products entering the system such as paper, cloth, sand, and other personal hygiene products and chemicals.
How to Apply
This RFP will use a mandatory two-step application process. The first step requires the submission of a Letter of Inquiry (LOI) in the form of a 5 page concept note, detailed in the RFLOI Overview and Guidelines. After evaluation of all LOIs received, the foundation will contact those applicants who are eligible and have projects of further interest to complete step two—the submission of a full proposal. If invited to submit a full proposal, instructions on the preparation of the proposal will be provided at the time of invitation.
Note: In order to ensure a timely review, we require that all letters of inquiry be submitted in English.
Click here to Apply for this LOI
More Information
Detailed information about the objectives, scope, eligibility criteria, and application process is provided in the Reinvent the Toilet Challenge Round 3 Rules and Guidelines: RFLOI Overview and Guidelines (PDF)
Frequently Asked Questions (PDF)
For more information, you may email us as: This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

src: www.gatesfoundation.org/watersanitationh...oilet-challenge.aspx