Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator (University College London, UK)
(1 viewing) (1) Guest
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator (University College London, UK)

Questionnaire for modelling of new sanitation systems 21 Jan 2014 21:11 #7078

  • masch
  • CONTACT
  • Posts: 3
  • Likes received: 0
  • Karma: 0
Dear Forum members,

please find attached below the questionnaire for sanitation systems suggested for inclusion in new sanitation systems modelling. Let me know if you have any questions or suggestions. (I mentioned it today in the webinar 5, the recording will be available in the next few days, please see here: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/139-ge...12&start=12#6746)

Within this project, outlined in this thread above we are developing the “NewSan” simulation tool to model resource fluxes of next generation sanitation systems. This will assist city planners in their decisions about implementations of sanitation strategies.
 
We need your help! If you are developing new, promising sanitation concepts, we would like to include your technology/approach as a module in the “NewSan” simulator. In order to do this, we  require the information shown in the attached questionnaire.

Many regards

Manfred

--
**********************************************************************
Dr. Manfred Schütze
ifak - Institut fuer Automation und Kommunikation e.V. Magdeburg
Wasser und Energie / Water and Energy / Agua y Energía
Werner-Heisenberg-Str. 1
39106 Magdeburg
Germany

Web: www.ifak.eu, www.lima-water.de
*********************************************************************
Attachments:
  • Attachment This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.
Last Edit: 22 Jan 2014 10:41 by dorothee.spuhler.

Re: Questionnaire for modelling of new sanitation systems 22 Jan 2014 11:04 #7082

  • dorothee.spuhler
  • CONTACT
  • Moderator
  • Water Engineer, Sustainable Sanitation and Water Management (SSWM) - Co-Lead of WG1 - One of the forum moderators
  • Posts: 137
  • Likes received: 42
  • Karma: 6
Dear Manfred and Luiza

Thank you for your interesting presentation yesterday and the questionnaire.

Having a look at it, I was surprised by the little information you require!

You mentioned yesterday that you can model not only material fluxes (ie. nutrients, water) but also energy and capex/opex. With what data are you simulating those flows along the sanitation chain when not from the functional units? What models do you use to determine the capex/opex and energy flows? What data would you require for this (you mention that you have a “ Lack of costs and energy data”)
How much data do you actually need to validate the simulator? Does NewSan allow for Monte Carlo simulation for uncertainty analysis?
You also mentioned dynamic modeling but could not find any information about it in the PPT: can you give as some more information to what extend this is possible?

For those who were not online with us yesterday: find the presentation from yesterday below (longer version).
Attachments:
  • Attachment This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.
Dorothee Spuhler
WG1 Co-lead
Working with Sustainable Sanitation and Water Management (SSWM) based at at seecon, Switzerland
www.sswm.info / www.seecon.ch
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Last Edit: 24 Jan 2014 14:40 by muench.

Re: Questionnaire for modelling of new sanitation systems 23 Jan 2014 00:30 #7090

  • luizacampos
  • CONTACT
  • Senior Lecturer in Environmental Engineering at UCL with research areas in water and sanitation.
  • Posts: 12
  • Likes received: 0
  • Karma: 0
Dear Dorothee

Most of the cost (capex and opex) equations for technologies used in NewSan Prototype was taken from SANEX. For others the cost have been approximately estimated from existing case studies or sanitation projects (from literature). For energy it was the same, values and equations from literature. However, these information are not always available.

For example we need at the moment information on CAPEX and OPEX for both anaerobic digestion (one and 2-phase CSTR) and pyrolysis and hydrothermal carbonization. If you guys have any data on these please contact me ( This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ).

The simulator is based on MMFA but with further development (in future work), process dynamic can be included.

Best wishes,

Luiza
Dr Luiza Cintra Campos
Senior Lecturer in Environmental Engineering
UG Programme Director of Environmental Engineering
Dept. Civil, Environmental & Geomatic Engineering
University College London
Gower St, London WC1E 6BT
Phone: +44 (0) 20 7679 4162 (ext 34162)
Email: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Re: Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator (University College London, UK) 03 Feb 2014 12:38 #7220

  • dorothee.spuhler
  • CONTACT
  • Moderator
  • Water Engineer, Sustainable Sanitation and Water Management (SSWM) - Co-Lead of WG1 - One of the forum moderators
  • Posts: 137
  • Likes received: 42
  • Karma: 6
Dear all,

The recording of the presentation of Luiza from our webinar number 5 on "Resource recovery and reuse", with the highest number of participants so far, is now available.

Due to the technical problems because of a new subscription and server with Adobe Connect, the recording of the entire webinar is not available. But Luiza was so kind to re-record the presentation and this is the one you can watch under the link below.
Additionally to that, we also did a short write up of the the main issues discussed during the webinar based on the questions of the audience.
Feel free to ask them any other questions here on the forum!

+++++++++++++

Modeling the next generation of sanitation systems

University College London, UCL, Luiza Campos

Watch the video here:forum.susana.org/forum/categories/139-ge...12&start=12#7107

Or here:


Powerpoint slides from her presentation are available in the attached file below.

Short description of the project
This project developed a draft version of a simulation tool to enable local decision makers to assess the implications of adopting alternative sanitation strategies at scale. It is based on the simulation of material and resource fluxes through different sanitation systems along the entire sanitation chain, which are built by the user based on processes for the user interface, conveyance/collection, storage and treatment and reuse or recharge. The simulation methodology has been already applied successfully by ifak in several networked sanitation contexts in developing countries. The NewSan Prototype simulator has extended the concept for non-networked systems. The model outputs are, at present, the main energy and nutrients balances. However, other criteria can be added easily. This should help to demonstrate systems which have increased commercial viability due to waste reuse/nutrients recovery. The flexibility of the simulator allows also to include additional modules for sanitation technologies developed in the future.

Issues and questions raised during the webinar discussion with participants:

1) Processes/technologies that could be included in the simulations:
Several people asked if additional or new processes could be included in the overall system modeling tool (e.g. the ones from the Gates projects). Manfred from ifak said yes and he has already made available a questionnaire for this (now posted on the forum here: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/97-ena...12&start=12#7114).
Steve Mecca asked precisely how to do to simulate a sanitation system based on his micro-flush toilet with NewSan:
Luiza said that she could offer a project for UCL students to develop the building box of Steve’s system in order to model/simulate with Steve’s system.

2) Software requirements:
NewSan Prototype Simulator is a prototype version and download/use is not available yet to the general public (current version is called "NewSan Prototype Simulator"). However, anyone interested in its later application is invited to contact the developers.
The “NewSan Prototype Simulator” does not need any commercial third-party software. It uses only Microsoft .NET Framework 4 (which is preinstalled on most newer Windows computers; otherwise it can be downloaded free of charge from Microsoft's webpage).
The aim of the Gates founded project was the development of a draft - and that has been achieved. Obviously, it would be nice to further develop it and to improve and to extend its facilities. This, however, would require additional funding (as ifak's funds within this Gates project have long run out).
Suggestions for extending/improving the simulator are most welcome. Those suggestions directed at the simulator program itself (which was developed by ifak) could also be sent directly to ifak ( This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ) or write them here on the forum

3) Validation of the model/tool:
Proper validation hasn’t been done yet but some (crude) plausibility check has been done for the model in the Durban case.
NewSan’s team is hoping to get additional funding to support the proper calibration and validation of the tool: the validation would require large sets of appropriate data.

4) A question was raised if Kai Udert from the Vuna project could use this tool:
He said at the moment no plans, also he would need a dynamic model (and NewSan Prototype Simulator is a steady-state model). Manfred from ifak commented to Kai that extensions of the simulator to allow also fully dynamic simulation could indeed be thought of. These are, however, beyond the present scope of NewSan Prototype simulator. If Kai or somebody else should be interested in including fully dynamic simulation, contact ifak ( This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ) or write about it here on the forum.
Attachments:
  • Attachment This attachment is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.
Dorothee Spuhler
WG1 Co-lead
Working with Sustainable Sanitation and Water Management (SSWM) based at at seecon, Switzerland
www.sswm.info / www.seecon.ch
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Last Edit: 05 Feb 2014 15:10 by dorothee.spuhler.

Re: Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator (University College London, UK) 05 Feb 2014 12:12 #7253

  • dorothee.spuhler
  • CONTACT
  • Moderator
  • Water Engineer, Sustainable Sanitation and Water Management (SSWM) - Co-Lead of WG1 - One of the forum moderators
  • Posts: 137
  • Likes received: 42
  • Karma: 6
Elisabeth just reminded me of another question:

„Does the thickness of the arrows have any significance?“
Manfred explained that the results are displayed in “Sankey” diagrams. This means that the width of the arrows is shown proportionally to the flow quantity (nutrients, energy, etc.)
Dorothee Spuhler
WG1 Co-lead
Working with Sustainable Sanitation and Water Management (SSWM) based at at seecon, Switzerland
www.sswm.info / www.seecon.ch
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Re: Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator - Sankey diagrams 05 Feb 2014 12:17 #7254

  • masch
  • CONTACT
  • Posts: 3
  • Likes received: 0
  • Karma: 0
Yes, we found that these Sankey diagrams (automatically produced as a result of the simulation) are indeed very useful in discussions/presentations with water companies, authorities and stakeholder meetings. Numbers shown indicate flows (e.g. m3/day) or fluxes (e.g. nutrient loads, e.g. kg/day).
What sort of experience do others have with the use of Sankey diagrams?

Many regards

Manfred

--
**********************************************************************
Dr. Manfred Schütze
ifak - Institut fuer Automation und Kommunikation e.V. Magdeburg
Wasser und Energie / Water and Energy / Agua y Energía
Werner-Heisenberg-Str. 1
39106 Magdeburg
Germany
Tel.: +49-391-9901470, -9901481
Fax: +49-391-9901590
E-Mail: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Web: www.ifak.eu, www.lima-water.de
*********************************************************************
Last Edit: 05 Feb 2014 12:18 by masch. Reason: forgot my name/greetings at the end of the message

Re: Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator - Sankey diagrams 05 Feb 2014 12:59 #7257

  • AquaVerde
  • CONTACT
  • Posts: 308
  • Likes received: 48
  • Karma: 8
Dear Dr Luiza Cintra Campos and dear Dr. Manfred Schütze,

If possible may you in-cooperate results and calculations by Mr. Sharma and colleagues in your project “NewSan” simulation tool? Is your coming system flexible enough to do so?

Waste to Energy, Technical and Financial Analysis, India
Technical and financial analysis for opportunities and obstacles associated with various FS to energy processing options
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-fae...ncial-analysis-india

Although it is stated, all is based on typical Indian condition, in my educated guessing this conditions are very representative to too many places on earth.

Regards,
Detlef SCHWAGER
www.aqua-verde.de
Sanitation-Solutions without external energy
Low-Tech Solutions with High-Tech Effects
"Inspired by Circular Economy"
www.flickr.com/photos/aqua-verde/
Last Edit: 05 Feb 2014 13:01 by muench. Reason: added visible hyperlink. Hyperlink not visible in e-mail notifications of new posts

Re: Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator (University College London, UK) 05 Feb 2014 16:09 #7260

  • dorothee.spuhler
  • CONTACT
  • Moderator
  • Water Engineer, Sustainable Sanitation and Water Management (SSWM) - Co-Lead of WG1 - One of the forum moderators
  • Posts: 137
  • Likes received: 42
  • Karma: 6
Dear all

Nelson from SEI asked some questions at the end of the re-recording of Luiza's presentation. As volume is quite low, we thought it would be worth to complete the write-up also with a summary of this discussion.
So, here you go…

How do you acquire the input values in order to run your simulations?

The model is based on a simple Material Flow Analysis which needs for the simulation input data and process in order to calculate output flows
Currently all the data used was collected from the literature: input concentrations as well as what happens in the process: e.g. energy consumption or production, decay of nitrogen etc.
Currently only examples were simulated based on the data from literature (e.g. the one's you have see on the diagrams in the presentations).
In the future, the model needs to be validated and calibrated. For this, case studies are needed from places were systems with similar outputs as NewSan produced are implemented. The problem is that most of the technologies, NewSan is looking at only exist at pilot scale and even data from pilot scale does vary if you scale up.

What are the Phosphorus and Nitrogen flows through the system on the slide with the UDDT?

The slide is only showing CAPEX and OPEX. But the simulator can also calculate phosphorus and nitrogen flow or any other of the currently available options (e.g. coliforms, carbon, BOD). They are calculated based on the settlement data which determines the inflows and the transformation and transportations they undergo through the systems.

Are you aware of the washcost project IRC has in the Netherlands has been carrying out?

Yes, and washcosts data was used in the in the work so far. A future collaboration would be welcome but currently, the NewSan Prototyp needs funds.
To have financial resources would help the team to keep the development going more and to validated and calibrate it.
See e.g. here for more info on washcost:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/55-wg-...f-project-evaluation
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/55-wg-...proach-to-sanitation
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/139-ge...imit=12&start=12
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/55-wg-...proach-to-sanitation

----

So if you have are working on the implementation of the “new generation of sanitation systems” and have a case study or data to offer to the team, especially on anaerobic digestion or biochar production, let them know...

Cheers, Dorothee
Dorothee Spuhler
WG1 Co-lead
Working with Sustainable Sanitation and Water Management (SSWM) based at at seecon, Switzerland
www.sswm.info / www.seecon.ch
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Last Edit: 05 Feb 2014 16:12 by dorothee.spuhler.

Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator (University College London, UK) 18 Feb 2014 16:52 #7411

  • AquaVerde
  • CONTACT
  • Posts: 308
  • Likes received: 48
  • Karma: 8
Dear Dr Luiza Cintra Campos and dear Dr. Manfred Schütze,
May you answer my question?
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/97-ena...12&start=12#7257

Additional is your upcoming system flexible enough, to incorporate future "new" developments like this: “Carbon is Money” From Wastewater to Energy – Exploration of Concepts ?
see www.kompetenz-wasser.de/CARISMO.519.0.html?&L=1

Regards,
Detlef SCHWAGER
www.aqua-verde.de
Sanitation-Solutions without external energy
Low-Tech Solutions with High-Tech Effects
"Inspired by Circular Economy"
www.flickr.com/photos/aqua-verde/
Last Edit: 17 Mar 2014 10:54 by muench.

Modelling the next generation of sanitation systems - NewSan Simulator (University College London, UK) 18 Feb 2014 22:01 #7415

  • luizacampos
  • CONTACT
  • Senior Lecturer in Environmental Engineering at UCL with research areas in water and sanitation.
  • Posts: 12
  • Likes received: 0
  • Karma: 0
Dear Detlef SCHWAGER

Very interesting work done by Sharma and colleagues. It seems to contains information we have been looking for.

So yes, we can build in NewSan (Prototype) the technologies Mr Sharma's group has analysed. I will get in touch with him.

Thanks a lot.

Luiza
Dr Luiza Cintra Campos
Senior Lecturer in Environmental Engineering
UG Programme Director of Environmental Engineering
Dept. Civil, Environmental & Geomatic Engineering
University College London
Gower St, London WC1E 6BT
Phone: +44 (0) 20 7679 4162 (ext 34162)
Email: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.73 seconds