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TOPIC: Renewed Topic about seeking coorporation with NGO

Call for coorporation with NGO's 27 Feb 2013 21:50 #3651

  • mannetjejos
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  • Jos Scheepens, RED-S
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Because I'm only a one-man-company without a factory but only ideas, I try to find NGO's who like my idea.
With them I want to find some way of coorporation to finance the start of producing the SiSaComp. At the other hand I try to get financing from company's like Shell or other big players that like to do something for the world instead of only poluting it (and they do projects like this)
But the most important point is that I first need mental support for my idea from those NGO's (and maybe SuSanA) so that I can convince the big companies about the allowance from NGO's.

I did already place a briefing about my company and the SiSaComp on the blog-page of Workinggroep 8 (emergency sanitation), see here:
susanawg8.wordpress.com/2012/05/12/prese...-the-company-red-s/.

I showed my dry toilet to Waste, the Netherlands and they told that it has a too small capacity for emergency sanitation.
But maybe it might be useful in household-projects. That is why I try to get this briefing available for NGO's involved with Workinggroup 4.
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Last Edit: 28 Feb 2013 08:17 by muench.

Re: Call for coorporation with NGO's 28 Feb 2013 06:51 #3654

  • JKMakowka
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I think you need to reconsider your overall idea.

For emergency operations it's all about logistics and (to a lesser degree) maintenance free operation for a relative short time. Organizations will use what is proven to work and what can be supplied in large quantities on a short notice. Basically this is not an area where a small one-man company can operate in.

For development projects it is mostly about enabling local people and companies to build toilets like that (with material that is available on local markets). So again there is little space for an EU based one-man company (besides that, most NGOs struggle with funding themselves and are unlikely to be a good source of funding).

You can go the "hard way" and make your own (local) NGO (akin to something like this: www.akvo.org/blog/?p=485 ) and try to collect funds for it back home (church groups are usually the best source for small scale donations), but you have to be really dedicated and basically work for free to do that. You could also join one of such existing "self-help" NGOs, but again it is mostly unpaid volunteer work.

Sorry to be so negative about it, the actual idea of your toilets is not bad at all.

Edit: You could start a local (social but profit oriented) business in an developing country to produce toilets mainly for lower middle class people. If you have some start-up money growth potential in these countries is normally quite good (but risky). But that approach is really a totally different thing, and you will spend most of your time as a business manager. Also be aware that if the business venture actually works it is not unlikely that a local competitor will quickly drive you out of the market using heavy handed tactics and political connections.

A novel idea would be maybe to try and collect some funds through crowdfunding websites ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_funding ). There are a few ongoing attempts to it (f.e. www.globalgiving.org/ ), but so far I have not heard of a really successful individual project.
Krischan Makowka
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete” - Buckminster Fuller
Last Edit: 28 Feb 2013 07:12 by JKMakowka.

Re: Call for coorporation with NGO's 28 Feb 2013 10:22 #3656

  • joeturner
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I like the idea, particularly of working with the military. I've been wondering for a while whether there is anything which could be learned about emergency sanitation from military base SOPs.

Obvious problems are not only the cost, but the proof of effectiveness of composting in bags, and whether it is aerobic or anaerobic (your project description on the susanawg8 blog says anaerobic, but I suspect you really mean aerobic).

The effectiveness of the sanitation in the bags will depend almost entirely on the aeration and the materials you are using for co-composting. Excreta on its own is unlikely to sanitise.

Also it is not clear what you are expecting to do with the large bags following the proceedure. Are you saying the military would take the whole bag away? Would they actually do that, and where do you think they would take it to?

Another issue might be the priorities in the situations you describe. I was talking to someone the other day who was looking at toilets in remote North American National Parks. Whilst composting toilets had been installed, the material was often actually being removed by helicopter (because the priority is to protect the wild envrionment from nutrient enrichment).. and because the composting toilets are not really doing anything other than adding bulk to the feces.

In the scenario where you expect the material to be removed, the priority might be to safely remove bulk from the material rather than to fully sanitise it. In which case, you might well be better to look at a vermiculture rather than aerobic composting, as it works at lower temperatures and reduces rather than adds bulk.
I don't work for anyone, I am a philosopher interested to think about how we think about WASH and sanitation. All thoughts are mine alone, I am responsible for any errors.

Previously trained and worked as a Soil Scientist and worked on projects composting sewage sludge.

Renewed Topic about seeking coorporation with NGO 28 Feb 2013 20:48 #3668

  • mannetjejos
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  • Jos Scheepens, RED-S
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Because I'm only a one-man-company without a factory but only ideas, I try to find NGO's who like my idea.
With them I want to find some way of coorporation to finance the start of producing the SiSaComp. At the other hand I try to get financing from company's like Shell or other big players that like to do something for the world to get a better name (and they do projects like this)
But the most important point is that I first need mental support for my idea from those NGO's (and maybe SuSanA) so that I can convince the big companies about the allowance from NGO's.

I did already place a briefing about my company and the SiSaComp on the blog-page of Workinggroep 8 (emergency sanitation), see here:
susanawg8.wordpress.com/2012/05/12/prese...-the-company-red-s/.

I showed my dry toilet to Waste, the Netherlands and they told that it has a too small capacity for emergency sanitation.
But maybe it might be useful in household-projects. That is why I try to get this briefing available for NGO's involved with Workinggroup 4.

In the attachements you will find a presentation about my company and 2 attachements about the SiSaComp-system (prototype) and the idea for the second edition
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Last Edit: 28 Feb 2013 21:57 by muench.

Re: Call for coorporation with NGO's 01 Mar 2013 16:26 #3683

  • mannetjejos
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Daar Mr. Joe Turner,

Thans for reacting. Like to say Thatcher my efforts for the Army are a different story, but let me tell that also the Army has problems with sanitation in the initial phase of an operation. We are also looping for sollutions.

But Army's could help NGO's in the initial ohade of disaster reliëf with equipement. The equipement of the NGO's on the other hand schold fit with that equipement e.g. 20ft ISO-containers.

Re: Call for coorporation with NGO's 01 Mar 2013 17:00 #3685

  • joeturner
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mannetjejos wrote:
Daar Mr. Joe Turner,

But Army's could help NGO's in the initial ohade of disaster reliëf with equipement. The equipement of the NGO's on the other hand schold fit with that equipement e.g. 20ft ISO-containers.


I am not clear how this answers the questions I asked you. An army has funding and setup to move large bags of feces, but I doubt they are going to. As far as I can understand from US and British Army bases, large portable sewage purification plants are often deployed in long term bases.

In a disaster situation, the question is whether anyone is going to export big bags of feces from the disaster. I doubt it. If not, what are you going to do with them?
I don't work for anyone, I am a philosopher interested to think about how we think about WASH and sanitation. All thoughts are mine alone, I am responsible for any errors.

Previously trained and worked as a Soil Scientist and worked on projects composting sewage sludge.
Last Edit: 01 Mar 2013 17:02 by joeturner.

Re: Call for coorporation with NGO's 01 Mar 2013 17:48 #3686

  • mannetjejos
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Dear Joe (with your permission).

the whole idea is based on the Humanure Handbook of prof.Jenkins and his experiances on Haiti (like also SOIL did). But in a disaster scenario it might be difficult to find materials to set up a compostpile; that was the reason to provide in "BREATHABLE" big bags like they are used in the food-industry. Inside the bag there are still al lot of compostable things like e.g. leafs, sawdust etc. Think that this solution makes the composting proces possible.

The idea is not to transport this bags. They should be placed on a save place just outside a (refugee)camp and stay there at least for 1 year. BUT, if necessary they can be replaced and that is a benifit that other piles don't have.

Is I already mentioned, WASTE judged that the SiSaComp has not enough capacity for emergency use. But it could be usefull in household/little village-projects.
In a small village it might be possible to work with minicredits to set up a system whereby a company collects the feces and urine, pays a little to the "producers" who later on can buy compost from the same guy. At the other hand people might set up such a system in their own yard because most of them are little farmers.

And therefor I'm looking for NGO's who might want to set up projects like this.

Re: Renewed Topic about seeking coorporation with NGO 01 Mar 2013 17:56 #3687

  • joeturner
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Yes, I am aware of composting of sewage sludge. I'm telling you from my professional experience of co-composting of sewage sludge that it is unlikely to work efficiently and safely in a bag, even if it is supposedly a breathable one. Highly unlikely to fully sanitise the sludge. Whether it would work to sanitise epidemic pathogens like cholera is anyone's guess. My view is that it probably does not.

In Haiti, I understand that the majority of the (more-or-less treated and totally untreated) sludge went to a landfill site, which was inadequate because people lived there.

A year is much too little time if you are not turning and aerating the sludge. I don't care what Jenkins says, it doesn't work. There are many studies that show this.

I like your collection system, but the idea of composting in bags is not going to do much more than is already done in disaster situations.

Furthermore, I think the idea of selling partially sanitised sludge as a compost is a silly one. And that is not what SOIL are doing, they actually have a properly aerated sludge composting system.
I don't work for anyone, I am a philosopher interested to think about how we think about WASH and sanitation. All thoughts are mine alone, I am responsible for any errors.

Previously trained and worked as a Soil Scientist and worked on projects composting sewage sludge.
Last Edit: 01 Mar 2013 17:58 by joeturner.

Re: Renewed Topic about seeking coorporation with NGO 01 Mar 2013 18:15 #3689

  • mannetjejos
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  • Jos Scheepens, RED-S
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Joe,

thanks for your usefull comment. So you think that the collecting system is OK, the end treatment needs a better revieuw. Will try to find out more about the SOIL solution you mentioned.

Like to mention that our Engineer Knowledge Centre is looking for a system where they use the heat that comes from a generator-engine to warm up a compost-pile ! And the heat that comes from that proces can be re-used again also. Don't know the exact details yet but spoke with a coleque about this topic.
Energy saving !!

Re: Renewed Topic about seeking coorporation with NGO 01 Mar 2013 18:20 #3690

  • joeturner
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I'd be surprised if low levels of external heat would help a composting system because in a properly functioning composting system generates its own.

If you are going to be adding your own heat source, you'd be better off rising the temp to 90 degrees and pasteurising the sludge.
I don't work for anyone, I am a philosopher interested to think about how we think about WASH and sanitation. All thoughts are mine alone, I am responsible for any errors.

Previously trained and worked as a Soil Scientist and worked on projects composting sewage sludge.
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