Composting with hot box method (Howard-Higgins system)
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TOPIC: Composting with hot box method (Howard-Higgins system)

Re: possible addition of up date for factsheet WG5 22 Feb 2013 10:47 #3547

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I have to tell you that I think it very unlikely that any co-composting site using human feces would be able to suggest that all pathogens had been removed in 14 days.

edit: I found this report on Richard's website discussing his work in Haiti, which also mentions the peepoo trial.

It appears that in Haiti, no pathogens were directly measured. The assessment of pathogen destruction was made via non-continuous temperature monitoring.

Richard states:

Scientific – apart from the early work of Howard in the title ‘The Lost Science of Organic Cultivation’ Higgins set up a trial for full analysis at the Waltham pet center in the UK.
This is a research centre owned by the MARS group where dogs are bred solely for
nutritional purposes. 200 dog wastes were added daily in paper bags and the resident
scientists analysed the ‘30 day’ old product, at four different time intervals. All samples were found to be free of pathogens and ‘chemically equal to earth’. We did not have the facility to have the end product tested in Haiti, nor were we equipped with the basic long probe thermometer but by following the strict time pattern of the operating system (and with simple temperature monitoring) the safe remediation of human effluent is easily effected tothis same level


I'll leave you to consider the flaws of this proceedure and whether the resulting compost can be confidently claimed to be free of pathogens given that the text appears to suggest it is solely based on a graph from the Humanure handbook.

I don't know enough about the breakdown of cholera to know if this system can be described as 'cholera safe'.
I don't work for anyone, I am a philosopher interested to think about how we think about WASH and sanitation. All thoughts are mine alone, I am responsible for any errors.

Previously trained and worked as a Soil Scientist and worked on projects composting sewage sludge.
Last Edit: 22 Feb 2013 11:08 by joeturner.

Composting with hot box method (Howard-Higgins system) 27 Feb 2013 10:31 #3622

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Dear Readers,

In our trials with SuSan Design and New Directions Foundation last January 2012 we successfully digested PeePoo bags very quickly in the Howard-Higgins system.

In a 1.5m3 prototype unit we put in 300 MHM pads, 200 PeePoo bags and a weeks sanitation from 36 houses. All inputs had disappeared within 14 days.

Later testing proved there were no harmful pathogens found according to the animal bi products regs 142/2011.


Attachment adding 300 MHM.AVI not found



36bioliners300MHMand200peepoobags-disappear.JPG


The material then goes on to mature into a finely divided saleable fertilizer in 76 days.

Also in at the Haiti earthquake of 2010 we digested PeePoo bags brought to the site of New Directions Foundation by OXFAM.


studentsinHaiti.jpg


This site got the full approval of Professor Bob Reed of WEDC, Loughborough University.


15marchwProfessorReed.JPG


The two trained managers, awarded certificates of proficiency, with professor Bob Reed present, went on to get jobs in recycling with CRS (Catholic Relief Services)

Videos of these events at the Haiti earthquake can be viewed at www.suaglon.co.uk


Richard Higgins
New Directions Foundation

Re: Peepoo bags in Kenyan urban slums: experiences, ideas and research 27 Feb 2013 11:28 #3625

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Richard, as I asked previously, please explain why you are testing to a European Animal Byproducts standard. And please tell us exactly which pathogens were measured.
I don't work for anyone, I am a philosopher interested to think about how we think about WASH and sanitation. All thoughts are mine alone, I am responsible for any errors.

Previously trained and worked as a Soil Scientist and worked on projects composting sewage sludge.

Re: users being paid to poo 07 Mar 2013 08:52 #3791

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> Given the poor state of many co-composting facilities, I'm generally not sure selling
> any sludge compost is a great idea.

The Howard-Higgins system HH -2 is unique and does not seem to be carried out any where except by us. We do not make a 'sludge compost.' We make an optimum nitrogenous compost/fertilizer of the highest value. We now make a seed compost too. This can sell at prices higher than all the other special fertilizer supplements that you can buy. IE., seaweed meal,garden potash or poultry based pelleted manure,etc., It is made completely from garbage and human waste.

There needs to be a revival in the manufacture of compost made with human waste.
This is what we do. Our training centre is open to the public and we have already course takers from various countries all of whom are not on the SuSanA conference.

Richard Higgins
co. chair WG5

Re: users being paid to poo 07 Mar 2013 09:19 #3793

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richard higgins wrote:


The Howard-Higgins system HH -2 is unique and does not seem to be carried out any where except by us. We do not make a 'sludge compost.' We make an optimum nitrogenous compost/fertilizer of the highest value. We now make a seed compost too. This can sell at prices higher than all the other special fertilizer supplements that you can buy. IE., seaweed meal,garden potash or poultry based pelleted manure,etc., It is made completely from garbage and human waste.


I have asked you for proper proof and asked technical questions about this system several times. Everything else you say is nonsense whilst you refuse to respond to those important questions.

There needs to be a revival in the manufacture of compost made with human waste.
This is what we do. Our training centre is open to the public and we have already course takers from various countries all of whom are not on the SuSanA conference.


I think the vast majority composting of sludge is a misnomer and that the claims you make are unproven and probably dangerous. Prove me wrong.
I don't work for anyone, I am a philosopher interested to think about how we think about WASH and sanitation. All thoughts are mine alone, I am responsible for any errors.

Previously trained and worked as a Soil Scientist and worked on projects composting sewage sludge.

Fw: re composting 08 Mar 2013 17:08 #3820

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Dear SuSanA forum and Joe Turner,

I have asked you for
proper proof and asked technical questions about this system several
times.? Everything else you say is nonsense whilst you refuse to respond to those important questions.


Please ask those technical questions again. I try to answer all questions and none have gone unanswered as far as I know.

There needs to be a revival in the manufacture of compost made with human waste.
This
is what we do. Our training centre is open to the public and we have
already course takers from various countries all of whom are not on the
SuSanA conference.

Our system passes all the Environment Agency regulations of the United Kingdom
Our system passes all Environmental Health regulations of the United Kingdom

I have posted analyses from various laboratories on this conference before on the testing of our end product
Every time we have tested there have been negative results for whatever we were testing for.
IE., pathogens and toxocara parasite.

The Howard-Higgins system HH -2 is unique and does not seem to be
carried out any where except by us. We do not make a 'sludge compost.'
We make an optimum nitrogenous compost/fertilizer of the highest value.
We now make a seed compost too. This can sell at prices higher than all
the other special fertilizer supplements that you can buy. IE., seaweed
meal,garden potash or poultry based pelleted manure,etc., It is made
completely from garbage and human waste.


I think the vast majority composting of
sludge is a misnomer and that the claims you make are unproven and
probably dangerous.? Prove me wrong.

-----
We took a bag to the John Innes comppost manufacturers in Suffolk UK, who carried out an analysis for us.
They said you are creating top soil - how do you do it???? www.johninnes.info/about.htm

Our training centre is open to the public and we have
already course takers from various countries all of whom are not on the
SuSanA conference. We have orders for the system in Senegal, Kenya, Uganda and Nigeria.

Please come and do a course here.
Until we have more funding we cannot set up training centres anywhere else. Although the Director of the Swedish
Environmental Institute, Dr. Rosemarrin, said 'this should be taught from football stadiums' when I presented the system
at the SuSanA meeting there recently.
Testing for capacity development was carried out recently at the farm of Makerere University near Kampala, January 2012.
This was visited by the group Slum Dwellers International, who said they want to work with this system.

This is where we put the weekly toilet waste of 36 houses, in bioliners, along with 300 MHM pads and 200 Peepoo bags
(Oxfam) through our 1.5 cubic metre vessel. All inputs had disappeared in 14 days. Subsequent testing for pathogens
showed negative. Please see pictures enclosed on this email. I cannot up load
pictures on the SuSanA forum reply page.

This system of the generation of controlled fungi and bacteria was carried out by Howard 100 years ago. I have simply
developed the system further.
This work is documented in the title The Lost Science of Organic Cultivation and is available on our web site along with
our current courses:

www.sustainableagriculturelondon.co.uk

Best regards

Richard Higgins
Total Nutrition through Food

Partnered ?with NorgesVel?International DevelopmentClusa and the Swedish Co-operative Centre, Mozambique
Co chair WG05: The?Sustainable Sanitation Alliance, Germany
Trustee: The Good Gardeners Association (nutrition)
Speaker on behalf of the Soil AssociationFounder: Well End Permaculture International and the
Howard-Higgins-Holistic-Health-Healing-Habitats
Founder: Bio Fertile Farming Consultancy
Agricultural researcher and advisor to:
SuSan Design, NorgesVel, and

New Directions Foundation


+++++++++++++++
6Biolinersperday.JPG


36bioliners300MHMand200peepoobags-disappear.JPG


blackEnvirosan003.jpg
Last Edit: 08 Mar 2013 22:07 by muench.

Re: Fw: re composting 08 Mar 2013 18:33 #3822

  • joeturner
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richard higgins wrote:
Dear SuSanA forum and Joe Turner,


Please ask those technical questions again. I try to answer all questions and none have gone unanswered as far as I know.



Richard, this is the fourth time I have asked these questions.

What pathogens have you measured. What results did you get (I want numbers and proof, not just 'no pathogens were found' or 'all pathogens were destroyed'.

You have said here that the compost meets UK standards and you previously said it met the EU Animal Byproducts regulation standards. Kindly explain to me how that is useful when you are talking about a system in Uganda (or anywhere else outside of the EU) where the pathogen loading is much higher, and where a 3log10 reduction may not reduce pathogens to safe levels as defined by the WHO standard.

Have you measured Ascaris, if so, what method did you use and what results did you get? Have you tested the compost to the WHO standard of <1 Ascaris ova per g?

I am not interested in what professor from Loughborough said, I don't care about what John Innes said, I don't care how many courses you are putting or or how many special qualifications you have.

Kindly answer these questions. They are quite straightforward and fairly basic if you want anyone to believe that you have really invented a system which sanitises at a speed which is ten-times faster than anything measured before.

Also kindly explain how you know that your system in Haiti was safe to destroy Cholera. Did you actually spike and measure the decay of cholera in your system?

I don't believe it is possible for any aerobic sewage composting system to fully sanitise in 14 days. There is no scientific literature that says this is possible, I don't know anyone or any system that claims to work on that basis other than yours.

So convince me.


+++++++++++++++++++++++
Note by moderator (EvM) to all: I have now compiled all previous posts on the Howard Higgins hot-box composting process into this one single thread so that we have all the posts and questions together in one thread. Scrol up to see previous conversations we have had on this process.
I don't work for anyone, I am a philosopher interested to think about how we think about WASH and sanitation. All thoughts are mine alone, I am responsible for any errors.

Previously trained and worked as a Soil Scientist and worked on projects composting sewage sludge.
Last Edit: 08 Mar 2013 22:52 by muench.

Re: Composting with hot box method (Howard-Higgins system) 09 Mar 2013 02:45 #3826

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Hi Richard,
I am not clear how you can state here that your system is working, I had the impression that the system is not reliable because Karsten wrote before (post #3586)
The test unit in Kampala showed that under the circumstances urea treatment gave pathogen free material and we did not get the same robustness of treatment from composting.
(underlining by me)

He clearly reffered that he would continue with the Urea treatment but not with the Howard Higgins System. As I am a fan of thermopilic composting as a secondary treatment (I understand that the Howard Higgins System is a risky version of thermopilic composting), I asked

It would be very necessary to get some more specific information (which I guess is in the attachment).
The question which come up:

• Composting not so robust. As this puts a question mark on heat composting, I guess it is very important to be more than clear about the testing conditions. a) to be able to think if it was the way of use, b) the time of composting c) the experiment conditions or a general problem of composting. What has been your impression /conclusion?
• How did you do the pathogen analysis? A material and methods would be very helpful to be able to understand better. You wrote "pathogen free".


I asked Karsten but in reality the question should go to you please look at (post #3595) and as well at #3262

I asked
My reading would be: Only one cycle in Feb 2012 has been under total scientific conditions, before and after were used to set up, take down etc. Is that right? What is one cycle? Just collection of the feces from 2.000 persons and processing? From how many days? And the real results, numbers graphs, could you put that on?


So I'm hoping for answers.

Thanks
Christoph
Last Edit: 09 Mar 2013 02:50 by christoph.

Re: Howard-Higgins composting system Re: Windmill-driven ATADS 09 Mar 2013 09:09 #3827

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Hello Jim,

Elizabeth has consolidated all emails on this subject into one block. I have not seen your reply here before..

The Howard-Higgins system HH -2 is not to do with germinating seedlings. It is about making the fertilizer/compost which then goes on to grow all types of crops.

So I think that was a crossed wire.


Regards
Richard.
pairofHotBoxes.jpg

Re: Fw: re composting 09 Mar 2013 10:07 #3828

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>What pathogens have you measured. What results did you get (I want numbers and proof, >not just 'no pathogens were found' or 'all pathogens were destroyed'.


>You have said here that the compost meets UK standards and you previously said it met >the EU Animal Byproducts regulation standards. Kindly explain to me how that is useful >when you are talking about a system in Uganda (or anywhere else outside of the EU) >where the pathogen loading is much higher, and where a 3log10 reduction may not reduce >pathogens to safe levels as defined by the WHO standard.


As far as we know so far, the World health Organisation take their guidance (or some of it) from the European Directive on destruction of harmful pathogens contained in the Animal by Products Regulations 142/2011, in regard to destruction of human pathogens contained in human effluent. This was conveyed to me by the research establishment in Swindon WRC in the UK that holds and compiles such relevant information.
www.wrcplc.co.uk/

If the level of pathogen destruction is acceptable by the UK and the USA why would it not be acceptable in Uganda? Are there any other standards for pathogen control in Uganda?

>and where a 3log10 reduction may not reduce >pathogens to safe levels as defined by >the WHO standard.


Please send me the document this definition comes from. I would love to see it.

Also why would the pathogen loading be much higher outside the EU?
Human waste is human waste and for instance in the book by Joe Jenkins (Humanure) The world acclaimed accepted system for human waste disposal (by many) he makes no such distinctions.

>Have you measured Ascaris, if so, what method did you use and what results did you >get? Have you tested the compost to the WHO standard of <1 Ascaris ova per g?


The levels of maintained temperatures of the destruction of Ascaris eggs is met easily by the Howard-Higgins System. That is why I say Ascaris eggs - no problem - More is the problem, I understand, that in South Africa, perticularly Durban, they have stored human effluent for 40 years and Ascaris eggs are apparently found breeding again at different times. Well my answer to that is treat it properly, through controlled temperature treatment and don't store it! Use it!
The temperature requirements acceptable for the WHO I believe is, in the destruction of pathogens, 50 degrees C for one week.

Here is a table on destruction of ascaris eggs:
Roundworm (Ascaris) eggs applied directly to soil Several years
unheated anaerobic digestion Many months
composting toilets Survive well
thermophilic composting Killed in 2 hrs at 55 degrees C or 20 hrs at 50 degrees C or 200 hrs at 45 degrees C

This is taken from European Commission:

ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/sludge/pdf/sludge_eval.pdf
see table 2.1 below


European Commission DG Environment
WRc Ref: CO 5026/1 / 12787-0
September 2001


Table 2.1 Pathogenic micro-organisms that may be found in sludge derived from
faecal material
Bacteria Protozoa
Salmonella spp. Entamoeba histolytica
Shigella spp. Giardia lambia
Escherichia coli (enteropathogenic strains) Toxoplasma gondii
Pseudomonas aeruginosa Sarcocystis
Yersinia enterolitica
Clostridium perfringens
Clostridium botulinum Helminths
Bacillus anthracis Taenia saginata
Listeria monocytogenes Taenia solium
Vibrio cholera Diphyllobothrium latum
Mycobacterium spp. Echinococcus gramulosus
Leptospira spp. Ascaris lumbricoides
Campylobacter spp. Ancylostoma duodenale
Staphylococcus Toxocara canis
Streptococcus Toxocara cati
Trichuris trichura
Viruses
Poliovirus Yeast
Coxsackievirus Candida albicans
Echovirus Candida krusi
‘New’ enterovirus Candida tropicalis
Adenovirus Candida guillermondii
Reovirus Cryptococcus neoformans
Hepatitis A-virus Trichosporon
Rotavirus
Astrovirus Fungi
Calicivirus Aspergillus spp.
Coronavirus Aspergillus fumigatus
Norwalk-like calicivirus Phialophora richardsii
Small round viruses Geotrichum candidum
Parvovirus Trichophton spp.
Adenoassociated viruses
Influenza virus
Epidermophyton spp.
2.2

3.1 Heat
3.1.1 Thermophilic temperatures
Pathogens are inactivated during exposure to heat, which to be effective and relatively rapid
must be above their optimum growth temperature. The period of exposure is dependent on
the temperature and on the species of the organism. Feacham et al. (1983) determined the
thermal death curve of a number of enteric pathogens. These have been collated into a single
graph by Strauch (1991 and 1998), which indicates a ‘safety zone’ where, if the operating
parameters were above the minimum requirements, the resultant sludge would be virtually
pathogen-free (Figure 3.1).
These data suggest that the operating parameters should be in excess of 7 minutes at 70°C;
30 minutes at 65°C; 2 hours at 60°C; 15 hours at 55°C or 3 days at 50°C.
A recent review for UK government departments of reported practical studies, much of which
were carried out as part of the COST 681 programme in the 1980’s, concluded that 70°C for
30 minutes or 55°C for 4 hours would produce a sludge that is virtually pathogen-free
(Carrington et al., 1998).
The differences in the suggested exposure times arise from differences in the design of the
two studies. The data of Strauch was based studies using pure cultures of the microorganisms, whereas the studies reported by Carrington allowed sufficient time to ensure the
efficient warming of the sludge and also took into account the movement of the sludge through
a continuous flow system. The UK workers thought that 30 minutes was the minimum
residence time that would ensure that all sludge had been exposed to lethal time-temperature


>I am not interested in what professor from Loughborough said, I don't care about what >John Innes said, I don't care how many courses you are putting or or how many special >qualifications you have.


Professor Reed, of WEDC Water Engineering and Development Centre happens to be a world authority on such things. WEDC advise NGO's of appropriate technology.

wedc.lboro.ac.uk/knowledge/booklets.html

Of course we would like our HH tecnology included in their books and papers, But it in lieu of funding at this present moment to publish a PhD peer reviewed paper in a medical journal, we have to continue as we are. But all temperatures shown in any papers I have found say that these harmful organisms are all destroyed at much lower temperatures than the HH -2 thermophilic system employs.


>Kindly answer these questions. They are quite straightforward and fairly basic if you >want anyone to believe that you have really invented a system which sanitises at a >speed which is ten-times faster than anything measured before.


Yes we believe we have, although at the turning out stage 14 days contents will be pathogen free. We analyze at 30 days due to the second heat increase in the system.

Also kindly explain how you know that your system in Haiti was safe to destroy Cholera. Did you actually spike and measure the decay of cholera in your system?


Cholera, the destruction for this organism is listed in the Humanure Handbook by Joe Jenkins.

regards
Richard Higgins
New Directions Foundation
Last Edit: 10 Mar 2013 14:43 by muench.

Re: Composting with hot box method (Howard-Higgins system) 09 Mar 2013 13:21 #3829

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First I was on the point answering to Richard with arguments. Than I thought…. There have been so many attempts ..that approach will not work.

Than I was on the point do describe my SEI-CHR-GIZ method where we use rain water, sterilize it by the sunshine and than pour the sterilized water over the fecal material in order to get a pathogen free material. There have been publications about hygienization in Susana. And in general hygienization of rain water by solar heating is a prooven method , but I´m not able to describe more as we are thinking of a patent.

Than I thought to ignore everything ... as the people do which are mentioned by Richard (Arno???). But I´m not cool enough. Look. I am always in fear that somebody could trust or believe in all those words and mentioning of names and methods. Sanitation is a serious thing and therefore on a serious forum we have to put a stop on things which are not standing to that. Problem is.... and that has always been my problem with Susana. Who decides where to draw the line.
For me Richard has passed the line clearly and that has to be clarified.

The Howard Higgins Method as proposed by Richard has not proven to be successful and the use may be dangerous. (If he proves me wrong, I do apologize in this space publically)

Your really annoyed Christoph
Last Edit: 09 Mar 2013 13:23 by christoph.

Re: Composting with hot box method (Howard-Higgins system) 10 Mar 2013 10:20 #3830

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>The Howard Higgins Method as proposed by Richard has not proven to be successful and the use may be dangerous. (If he proves me wrong, I do apologize in this space publically)

>Your really annoyed Christoph


I would have thought that my last posting on this forum would have proved that the system is successful.

Please go to Please go to sustainableagriculturelondon.ning.com/vi...itation-solutions-ii

and see the system in action at the Haiti earthquake disaster of 2010. This was done here without the use of Hot Boxes (HH -2)

I have had many students come through our centre to learn this process. If it is that important to anyone to understand this system, please come and do a course on it.

Or you can buy the book that includes the original science of Howard on this subject. It is permanently on display and available from our web site.
If it is not that important to you to find out how this system works then keep doing what you are doing. But all the students who have ever come on our course, and as I say
they are not from the SuSanA forum, go away understanding the process and very often start to utilize it themselves.

As regards the SEI the Swedish Environmental Institute and Dr. Rosemarrin. This is where the SuSanA conference is held in Sweden to discuss the updates and progress
of the last years progress in alternative sanitation. It is a very good conference to attend to gain more understanding of the detail of different systems and approaches to
operation and maintenance, capacity development etc.,

Because it is obviously very different to other systems and is new on the block, so to speak, it doesn't mean it doesn't work. We have had fantastic results for 15 years and have
never had any complaints from anyone; what to speak of from Environmental Health officers or Environment Agency officers.

The proprietor of our site is a professional footballer who wants to only eat organic food for his health and fitness. We grow him, and his family, organic food and we happen to recycle all the cat waste from his wife's cattery on the same site and grow the food crops with it after it has been through the Howard-Higgins HH -2 system, in conjunction with all the other wastes the estate produces.

This was the mission of Sir Albert Howard all those years ago. He researched the science back and found that Professor King, who wrote the title Farmers of Forty Centuries - Permanent Agriculture in China, Korea and japan - had discovered that the thermophilic science was employed by the Chinese for fertilizer production as far back as 4,700 years ago.
They employed all manner of wastes and were supporting the highest densities of population at the time of his research (1920's) namely up to 3,000 people per square mile.

On finding this out I trialled the system in England, saved up the money and went to trial it in India again, where I wrote the book. Our work is all depicted in
our title The Lost Science of Organic Cultivation, as per our web site, in colour plates and Howard's work is still in the original black and white plates.

Our second printing will be available soon.

Best Regards


Richard Higgins

co chair of WG5, Sanitation to Agriculture.

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