SuSanA - Forum

Re: Call to WG9 for input on UN Thematic Consultation on post 2015 development goals - by: Carol McCreary

Sun, 03 Mar 2013 17:43:57 +0000

Thanks, Imad, Yes, global sanitation addresses the whole constellation of issues you list in your first sentence. Yes, businesses need more bottom lines than profit. " Job creation and business opportunities locally" is very important.

Re, EcoLoo, I'm very interested in enclosed long term composting but wonder why you mention 30 years? Is that how long a home system can go without emptying? It seems a bit long for hygienization. Very nice graphic here! www.ecoloo.eu/usingwater.html Good luck with business. Following on Twitter. How about following @PortlandPHLUSH ?

Re: Call to WG9 for input on UN Thematic Consultation on post 2015 development goals - by: ecoloo

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 20:53:10 +0000

We at " EcoLoo.eu" believe that solving the global sanitation problem will have a domino positive impact on Environment, poverty, health, water, energy, women, organic agriculture, food security & quality, society, well being & stability in many ways; especially if we engage CSR companies, NGO’s, NPO’s, help organizations, UN, development programs and banks in the process.

Awarness and education are some of the challenges we face. More funds to involve people in such programs will be very helpful.

We need to stop flushing and wasting 30% of our precious water in the toilet, and consider waste as a resource instead of a problem. Water should be only used for drinking and hygiene purposes, but prohibited to be flushed in the drain to transport the human waste.

We should consider the biological sanitation solutions as some good and functional future toilets as they are affordable, environmental friendly, sustainable, odor-free, maintenance-free, consumes no energy nor water, and the end product is fertilizer.

Besides, corporations should not focus only on establishing profitable businesses, but effective, long-term and sustainable ones based on an “Inclusive Business Model” and Sustainagility in order to create job and business opportunities locally starting at production, distribution, installation, support.. etc.

Best Regards,
Imad Agi
CEO

EcoLoo AB
Karlsgatan 5,
SE-452 30 Stromstad, SWEDEN
Phone: +46-707-954 647
www.ecoloo.eu
Skype: byggakuten
Twitter: EcoLooSweden

Call to WG9 for input on UN Thematic Consultation on post 2015 development goals - by: Carol McCreary

Mon, 04 Feb 2013 06:20:16 +0000

Greetings WG9 [Sanitation as a Business and Public Awareness] Member:

Hope this message finds everyone well. We are writing to let you know about a website platform created by the United Nations with civil society groups to collect input from the global community regarding post-2015 "development goals" from January 15th to February 15th. The World We Want 2015 website is collecting input on a variety of themes [called consultations] including themes related to water and sanitation. This information will be compiled and shared at the 68th General UN Assembly to inform future development goals/directions. For more information about the initiative, please see the Water Thematic Consultation page www.worldwewant2015.org/water and this blog post by a WG9 group member. waterfortheages.org/2013/02/01/what-kind...-we-want-after-2015/

There are three sub-consultations in the water area: 1) Water, Sanitation, and Hygiene, 2) Water Resources Management, and 3) Wastewater and Water Quality. WG1 [capacity development] has already contributed a draft statement for the Wastewater Sub-Consultation, and WG10 [operation and maintenance] is collecting input now. It would be great if WG9 could also provide a collective statement, perhaps addressing the WASH sub-consultation. To collect your input we have opened this thread on the SuSanA Forum.

Questions for the current week are:
1. What do you think that you and others need to do to change the current situation, in terms of water governance, such as policies, ways of working, guidance, processes and decision-making?
2. What message would you bring to those that are now formulating the world’s new development agenda?
3. What do you see as the main constraints for a world in which everyone has access to a safe and sustainable water and sanitation service?

You are provide input here before February 14. We can compile a collective statement, and submit it to the World We Want 2015 website on February 15th. We appreciate you sharing your knowledge, and helping make sure toilets stay on the agenda of those working globally.

Regards -

Carol McCreary and Abby Brown
WG9b

Public Hygiene Lets Us Stay Human (PHLUSH)
115 SW Ash Street #400G, Portland, Oregon 97204
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it www.phlush.org
Twittter: @PortlandPHLUSH Facebook: PHLUSH

Re: "TURNTOO" as a profitable business model for "Resource SECURING Sanitation Systems" (aka EcoSan=NASS)? - by: AquaVerde

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:40:41 +0000

TRIZ - What Is TRIZ?
During my search for clarity and solutions on bringing circular economics in sanitation in practise via tools like "turntoo", a female colleague, who is writing her PhD-thesis (Dissertation) on methodologies for future sanitation approaches, suggested a Russian TRIZ-methodology as a possible great help. E.g. Siemens, GE, Phillips etc. is using it already and it would have more advantages them the often used collective "Brainstorming (e.g. GTZ/GiZ-ZOPP)"...

"...TRIZ is a problem solving method based on logic and data, not intuition, which accelerates the project team's ability to solve these problems creatively. TRIZ also provides repeatability, predictability, and reliability due to its structure and algorithmic approach...." www.triz-journal.com/archives/what_is_triz/
TRIZ for Engineers www.wiley-vch.de/publish/dt/books/ISBN978-0-470-74188-7

"...TRIZ research began with the hypothesis that there are universal principles of creativity that are the basis for creative innovations that advance technology. If these principles could be identified and codified, they could be taught to people to make the process of creativity more predictable. The short version of this is:

Somebody someplace has already solved this problem (or one very similar to it.)
Creativity is now finding that solution and adapting it to this particular problem."

In other words and extremely simplified, a bit of "copy and paste" like many sanitation experts and others do, is already a bit of that methodology?

Example:
"Waste processing: Dairy farm operators could no longer dry the cow manure due to increased cost of energy. TRIZ led the operators to a method used for the concentration of fruit juice, which requires no heat."
...seams to me a kind of TRIZ- appetizer...

Do you heard already about TRIZ?
Regards,
Detlef

Attachment: "TRIZ Logic and the Tools for Innovation and Clarity of Thought" (TRIZ for Engineers, one part of book only)

Re: "TURNTOO" as a profitable business model for "Resource SECURING Sanitation System" (aka ecosan)? - by: AquaVerde

Fri, 25 Jan 2013 20:30:29 +0000

copy and paste with permission of Mr. Charles Thibodeau, Canada

25. Januar 2013 um 16:17 Uhr
Von: "Charles Thibodeau" < This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it >

Hello Detlef,

Well, I knew already the "turntoo cycle", it exists in many economic sectors. I think it's a good way of redefining the life cycle of a product transforming it to a service.

Related to sanitation, I don't think it's the same thing, at least for developed countries. Usually people change when they have to do it, e.g. when you have to pay your fertilizers twice or triple the price, you will try to find substitute, as organic fertilizers are (e.g. kitchen waste or sludge).

In Quebec, about 20% of sludge is spread as fertilizer, the rest is buried or incinerated. The government's goal is to reach 60% of the sludge to be spread by 2015 (they won't do it) and to ban landfill and incineration in 2020 (they won't do it neither, but it's a noble goal!). So, organic and nutrients will return completely to land in a near/long future. But I think industries must do an additional effort to cut down chemicals and metals discharged in sewer.

As you know the context in developing countries is quite different and may be that the Turntoo concept can be applied over there. Is people ready to pay for any kind of sanitation?? Not everybody for sure! That's the big issue encountered I think.

Finally, it's my first time thinking about this concept, so I can't say much about it. Maybe other theoricians would have already though about it...

Have a good night,

Charles

Re: "TURNTOO" as a profitable business model for "Resource SECURING Sanitation System" (aka ecosan)? - by: AquaVerde

Fri, 18 Jan 2013 08:36:09 +0000

Which innovative "jumps" are needed?

A nice and short comparison:
Getting to Zero, by Elephant or F-18
by John Elkington: ... My point here was to remind people that, as recently as the 1940s, many people thought that the sound barrier was unbreakable. Planes that approached the speed of sound experienced severe buffeting that cut their acceleration. While it was theorized that, at supersonic speed, the flying could become smooth again, no pilot had experienced that yet. That changed, of course, when Chuck Yeager and others broke through, and proceeded to fly at ever-higher Mach numbers. We are now banging up against a sustainability barrier, with many businesses having accelerated their efforts relatively easily and now hitting what feel like practical limits. Many leaders are unable to conceive of the new economic and business models that will allow them to break through and pick up speed again in achieving ever more audacious goals. But just as the ingenuity of the aerospace industry managed to break through the sound barrier, I am optimistic that inspired businesses can break through the sustainability barrier.

A phrase that rings on in my mind from Rotterdam came from Thomas Rau, the leading German eco-architect based in Amsterdam, who said that he is not interested to work on the old mistakes, but instead wants to "work on the new mistakes." An aerospace engineer would call this pushing the envelope. With enough experimentation at the very edges of the possible, we will find ways to do the apparently impossible.
source blogs.hbr.org/cs/2012/06/getting_to_zero_by_elephant_or.html

I hope John Elkington helped to clarify my long text on possible exchanges on ideas on the subject.

I recognise, technical invention and related technical innovations for business models maybe simpler to follow and to understand, them to understand the need of new business models and approaches in a well known field like sanitation.

Best Regards,

Detlef SCHWAGER

PS: Thanks Jürgen for your real helpful link on the text-issues involved. I try my limited best to go for it.

Re: Toilet certification - by: AquaVerde

Mon, 14 Jan 2013 14:11:58 +0000

Dear Colleagues,

I asked Braungart (C2C) exact the same question in 2011, reminding him that the inventors and start-up businesses involved are rather small to pay the high prices for any certification, his C2C-Cert. or e.g. for a German "DIBT-Zulassung" (www.dibt.de/index_eng.html). This DIBT-Zulassung for CWs cost approx. 45,000 EUR and have to be renewed!

Braungart mentioned INFORMAL, it is not helpful to try to be from the beginning (during trail & error periods) 100% perfect C2C and recommended to any entrepreneur, who want to work honestly their way through the headaches with C2C-toilers, may just call it: "Inspired by C2C" or "Based on C2C", which do not infringe any C2C-copyrights and will cost nothing.

In many of his public presentation, Braungart was very critical about the reality of the whole certification businesses (jungle) and even about his own C2C-certifications too. He was forced to have one too, to keep clear distances to the dubious.

In my personal SUBJECTIVE opinion, the real big players using and purchasing certifications as "condoms" or invent dubious "condoms" by them self, first as a green-washing instrument (euphemistic called "Marketing") and second as an indirect way to keep small start-up inventors down, in order !to steal! or purchase cheap the INFORMAL inventions/ideas from the small ones.
Big payers have big PRs sub-contracted to push customers to a kind of religious BELIEF in Certifications. Do not buy this cheap stuff...

Best Regards,

Detlef SCHWAGER

Re: "TURNTOO" as a profitable business model for "Resource SECURING Sanitation System" (aka ecosan)? - by: AquaVerde

Sun, 13 Jan 2013 14:52:25 +0000

Dear JK Makowka,

Thanks for your discourse contribution.

On the needed responsible investments you mentioned:
Only on the „technical cycle“, it is to me quite clear, normal entrepreneurs without military “state-support” for raw-material “pur-chasing” will get out of business (horror scenario? but already ongoing), because needed resources are limited, climbing prices on speculative market do not allow any-more profit margin for products.

“Normal” entrepreneurs (e.g. medium size companies in family driven business) have survival-instincts, they will look for and will invest in more peaceful alternatives and therefore more in reliable raw-material sources, to keep business and family alive. Only indirect they care for the employees and environment too, through responsible new investments.

I am not a friend of direct government investments in this sector (direct funding and substitutions with taxpayers money) as it is source for most dodgy “business” and for their Party-“friends” too. Indirect government incentives (e.g. via tax) maybe a better way.

On the “biological cycle” on which EcoSan is connected to, I am still too much puzzled by my self, to put the many puzzles in the right order together …

Any ideas on the “biological cycle” are welcome!

Best Regards,

Detlef SCHWAGER

Re: "TURNTOO" as a profitable business model for "Resource SECURING Sanitation System" (aka ecosan)? - by: JKMakowka

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 20:44:04 +0000

I guess that problem is that it isn't really a highly profitable business, or at least no-one found a solution yet that is highly profitable.

It would be probably possible to cover the costs and salaries, but it needs investment. And there are just many other, more profitable ways to invest money into, so unless you have the government to invest, there is little opportunity for someone to start it up.

From a business perspective it probably makes the most sense if you are a "producer" to include it in your running and profitable business as a side venture... paying an external service provider will just eat away the potential small profits though.

"TURNTOO" as a profitable business model for "Resource SECURING Sanitation Systems" (aka EcoSan=NASS)? - by: AquaVerde

Sat, 12 Jan 2013 14:36:02 +0000

Dear Colleagues,

I am cracking my small head on the "biological cycle" of business orientated “NASS=EcoSan” systems. Maybe you have a better thinking and more ideas on this with your bigger heads ?

On this business minded approach, purposely I do not want to split between tropical and cold climatic countries, despite their huge differences in many issues involved. Resources Securing - Circular Economy is one global issue, in this globalized world.

May you have a look at this business model and maybe its worth to have a constructive discourse in this forum about this "new thinking":

On circular economy (C2C) a realistic linking between producer and customer is still missing, which means an appropriate business model is missing to bring it to real life. E.g. an economical viable system to transfer "used" raw-material from USER back to Producer. Producers are interested in circular economy for economic benefits only, but still have problems to make it work on larger scale for their own and USERs benefits. Additional, peaceful international systems aren't in place & will not be put in place, to have raw-materials secured and equally distributed.

Thomas RAU is trying to make the philosophy of circular economy (C2C) work in reality, through a "performance based system" to secure raw-materials, with an environmentally friendly "moneymaking" business model, called "TURNTOO".

As far as I understand, the "SERVICE-Provider TURNTOO" starts to make it work on the "technical cycle", for the beginning circular economy (C2C). Basically in order to keep technical raw-materials "alive & available" for future users (future generations of producers & USERs), this will stop the accelerating paste of permanent wasting/destroying of more and more raw-materials.

This approach is acting as a kind of "SERVICE-Provider" between Customer & Producer. The former Customer is becoming a USER and only purchases from Producer the "performance of a product", but not the raw-material by itself, instead of the whole product (e.g. 10,000 hours washing, but not the whole washing machine). Therefore the product is cheaper for the USER too. After end of performance period with USER, the "SERVICE-Provider" is collecting as a service mainly for the Producer, the used product (raw-material) and returning it to its raw-material-bank (pool) and finally back to the owner.

Through this kind of SERVICE the Producer becomes an economic benefit of secured availability on raw-material and security on future price developments outside the speculative commodity market.

As far as I understand, the profit margin + costs + risks share involved for the "Raw-material- SERVICE-Provider" is paid by the Producer only & very direct. This amount is near equal to the amount the customer pays less for the product. To start production process and cycle, the SERVICE-Provider has to pre-purchase raw-material from the speculative commodity market (e.g. from steel providers). The Producer is purchasing from the "SERVICE-Provider`s" raw-material bank (pool). The ownership and return of raw-material is later secured by the paid service-provider. As a "by effect", a system like that has many more them only economical benefits. Social, ecological and health: e.g. jobs through service providing; through less raw-material exploration and less energy intensive base-material converting.

www.turntoo.com/en/how-turntoo-functions/

What do you think and what would be your advice on "biological cycles" (consumed biological raw-materials) via a business orientated Service-Provider, like TURNTOO in SANITATION?

The business model on "technical cycle" to re-use technical raw-material, like alum and steel is easier to understand.

In my opinion, "consumed" biological raw-materials in a "biological cycle" have high complexity because of many players involved. On the other side many players are needed, in order to make them finally reusable raw-material, plus having an equal sound environmentally friendly moneymaking business model like TURNTOO.

E.g. Phosphate, Humus and Energy in food and in ("used") digested human and animal food (urine and faeces in human and animal sanitation). In near future Agricultural Producers would still like to keep payable price for this precious raw-material as fertiliser & humus back on their field for new food production. The Phosphates reserves are limited, the prices will climb up without re-use-systems.

How could a "SERVICE-Provider" like "TURNTOO" do this "job" between USER and Producer in a profitable way and with economic benefit for USER and Producer for the "biological cycle" of consumed biological raw-materials? In a "performance based system" also?

The old business model for "centralised sewage collection, -treatment and -discharge", with their own lobby organisation is often profitable for a very limited number of beneficiaries. It is still spilling fertiliser, humus and energy through treatment plants via rivers to the sea. "Certification-condoms", gild, shame and horror scenarios about our all future, will not change anything or at least the mindset of the current beneficiaries of thatch systems. In developed countries, centralised sanitation infrastructure without source separation (Urine & Faeces) are in places, after many years of "trial and error".

Therefore any costly and rough "Sustainability-Revolution" will not be successful, but an evolution through "trail and error" on new business models which have more beneficiaries involved, will be successful. Any new estate development might be the best option for a wanted “Sanitation-Revolution”, for centralised new business models on decentralised and semi-centralised services (e.g. Urine Diverting Dehydration Toilets, UDDTs), providing to offer to Agricultural Producer biological raw-material by "biological cycles" (re-use).

To start an evolution (Via trail and error?) on new business models like the inventive Service-Provider "TURNTOO", the existing Centralised Sanitation System has to be used for a “Resource Securing Sanitation” (maybe aka EcoSan). In a first business step to take out Humus & Energy for sale, via low-tech, e.g. by CHP, and in a future business step, taking out the Phosphate also for sale, via high-tech equipment.

First equation (with the help of a BORDA e.V.- spreadsheet) concludes, that a minimum of 10.000 p.e. would be required, to make an investment for a possible service provider viable (this is under typical German conditions, with CHP installation cost 5.000 EUR/kW_el). The surplus sludge of existing sewage treatment plant would mainly be used. This calculation is based only on sale of renewable electrical power generated. But selling additional heat for warming up buildings, might lower the number to 5.000 p.e. (by my educated guessing). Having Phosphate in future included would make smaller "re-use systems" viable too.

!!! E.g. already now, farmers in DK deliver their animal manure to a large bio-gas plant and get paid depending on nutrient and caloric value of manure. Through CHP the plant sales heat and power to a nearby small town and the grid. The same farmers purchase biological fertiliser & humus with a clear stated nutrient content from the plant.

Maybe I see this all too narrowed and too complicated?

Could you follow my German-English? Are the issues involve in a "biological cycle" too complex for a profit orientated Service-Provider in “Resource Securing Sanitation”?

Best Regards,

Detlef SCHWAGER

MSc. Tropical Water Engineering

by Roger Cox (NL): Cradle to Cradle seems to be the first sound environmentally friendly moneymaking business-proposal.

Re: Ideas and vision for working group 9 - by: Carol McCreary

Thu, 20 Dec 2012 17:39:16 +0000

Hi, Everyone,

So much is happening!!! We need everyone's help to track developments. This is a call for input into Workgroup 9, both WG9a - Sanitation as a Business and WG9b - Sanitation Awareness. And let's share right here on the Susana Forum.

Thanks to the encouragement and support of Trevor Surridge (tmsinnovation) of SuSanA secretariat, Jack Sim and I will be working to update our Factsheet and posting a few key new items on the WG 9 page of the SuSanA website. www.susana.org/lang-en/working-groups/wg09 ,

Personally, I am fascinated by the exploding use of the social media in increasing awareness throughout the sanitation sector. I am sure that forum participants see all sorts of new things we miss. Please tell us the hot spots we need to watch. Let us know how you are using the social media. Also interested in campaign evaluation reports with analytics.

Look forward to hearing from you here. Or tweet links to @PortlandPHLUSH or to my handle @Baggywrinkles.

If you're celebrating Christmas, have a great one.

Carol

Re: Is the involvement of social entrepreneurs crucial for sustainable sanitation? - by: sathiyann

Sun, 18 Nov 2012 10:41:38 +0000

Hi, I work in Ghana, West Africa, where I have a company supplying hand pumps. There is a lack of toilets both in the urban and rural areas of Ghana.

I support this method of promoting sustainable sanitation. At the levels of poverty seen in the developing world, any earnings from a legitimate business gives a moral boost together with the cash for every day needs.

Sanitation of any kind can only succeed if the premises and surroundings are kept clean. Local government is rarely able to provide this service in urban areas much less in the rural areas.

Maybe a water station, a solar powered mobile phone battery charging facilities could increase income to the operator.

Sathiyan

Re: Is the involvement of social entrepreneurs crucial for sustainable sanitation? - by: kcmishra

Wed, 14 Nov 2012 02:26:56 +0000

Yes.The last mile social entrepreneur can make a difference in addressing to the problem of Sanitation in a sustainable way.WTO and eKutir have been encouraging the establishment of last mile Sani Shop entrepreneurs in Odisha ,India which is based on the principles of PIE(Participatory,ICT enabled and Entrepreneurship driven approach).It is giving good result as the business approach to this problem is more fruitful than a nonbusiness approach.To reduce transaction cost for customer acquisition,add competitiveness to entrepreneurs' business and bring transparency ,we have developed a user centric Sanitation Application called Sani Tool which is helping all the stakeholders in the eco system for objective decision making and solving the problem.
Su SanA forum should advocate this approach for bringing sustainable solution to thsi problem.
KCMishra
Founder
eKutir

Is the involvement of social entrepreneurs crucial for sustainable sanitation? - by: CAGIEA

Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:29:47 +0000

Service delivery especially Sanitation and Water, in most of the developing countries is majorly financed by donor countries these donations reach the recipients through governments and local NGOs, CBOs. Such donation are vulnerable to misappropriation and when this happens the targeted population suffers as the projects are interrupted or closed completely.
The headline of the Daily Monitor Newspaper Tuesday, November 6, 2012. Follow link: www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/Norway++...bfbtmxz/-/index.html
Private social entrepreneurs in most cases will strive to see their business grow and probably go to nations and this is a motivating factor which will help nations to achieve sustainable sanitation.
So i what to get it from members if private social entrepreneurs can be a remedy.

Mastulah
Publicity Director
CAGIEA
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Sanitation Worldwide - the Song - by: steve4real

Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:22:54 +0000

Have a listen to the amazing sanitation songs we produced.

www.soundcloud.com/sanitationworldwide

vimeo.com/46663931

Enjoy,

Sanitation Steve