SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Tue, 21 Apr 2015 09:48:11 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Shit flow diagrams - does it need to be called "shit"? The use of the term shit (a swear word or not?) in sanitation dialogues - by: cecile http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12974 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12974 Any time is a good time to pick up on a discussion and thank you for doing so.
6 months ago I participated in this discussion and I was mitigated about the use of the word shit. It is shocking but does it trigger action ?
I have been thinking over it since then while participating in workshops and working on studies and in the end I do understand better how the use of shit flow diagram and the use of a word without circumvolution can effectively trigger, decision makers and even project managers.

I think on the contrary, that the use of conservative and smooth word does withstand or dilutes the severity and urgency of the issues and that in other fields using real words would also help tackle real problems in a more urgent manner, including in the medical field when dealing with patients.

If a word is taboo, the discussion around it and the way to solve the challenges are more likely not to be discussed openly.

It is very good news that the word is used at higher political levels which shows more openness. But as Shoshabana says there is still a long way to go and if the ministries are not ready to use the word shit now, let's not shock them and use a word to replace it (like excreta) but at least they have heard it and it will make its way.
It makes me think about the issue of "Menstrual Hygiene Management" (another nice expression...) which is starting to become "less taboo" (cf. interesting interview of Ina Jurga in the featured users section about this topic !)within a couple of international institutions, but which is still very taboo at lower levels and hence not even talked about in many projects.

Cecile]]>
Faecal sludge management Sun, 19 Apr 2015 13:26:06 +0000
Re: Shit flow diagrams - does it need to be called "shit"? The use of the term shit (a swear word or not?) in sanitation dialogues - by: AsitNema http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12948 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12948
I am just wondering why in the first place one is feeling compelled to use such an explicit, graphic word? These days often enough even in seminars and conferences we are hearing this word? Are we short of appropriate terminology? Are we crossing the boundary of decency in our zest to bring about desired change? Are we not compromising sensitivities of our own and that of the wider audience? Are we becoming insensitive to cultural differences - the eastern and the western folks?

Wonder if the communication specialists would approve of use of such explicit words (Think of other domains and what would happen if they went lose?)! Wonder if use of such words will really lead to bring about the desired policy impacts?

I am not in favour of this trend of using 'offensive' words on professional fora, notwithstanding the severity and urgency of the issue. Let some words remain taboo.

I can't help drawing a parallel from the field of health, and thank the health workers/ paramedics and doctors that they do not use the 's***' and the 'f***' words while dealing with patients!

So my request to the fellow professionals in the sanitation domain is to stick to the conservative, rather than attempt to make our illustrations, exhibits, articles, etc. stark, graphic and explicit (just to attract more eye balls!!). I am sure better sense will prevail !]]>
Faecal sludge management Fri, 17 Apr 2015 08:31:27 +0000
Re: Flash cards for Onsite sanitation systems (India; in English and Gujarati language) - based on Sandec Compendium - by: luethich http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12867-flash-cards-for-onsite-sanitation-systems-india-in-english-and-gujarati-language-based-on-sandec-compendium#12915 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12867-flash-cards-for-onsite-sanitation-systems-india-in-english-and-gujarati-language-based-on-sandec-compendium#12915
Nice work you did here - and thank you for correctly acknowledging our eCompendium.
We discovered thís by chance on Susana, would be great if you could send us a preview copy next time so that we are informed about new uses and developments of the Compendium!

Congrats
Christoph Luethi
Eawag]]>
Faecal sludge management Thu, 16 Apr 2015 07:47:04 +0000
Re: Flash cards for Onsite sanitation systems (India; in English and Gujarati language) - based on Sandec Compendium - by: dorothee.spuhler http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12867-flash-cards-for-onsite-sanitation-systems-india-in-english-and-gujarati-language-based-on-sandec-compendium#12914 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12867-flash-cards-for-onsite-sanitation-systems-india-in-english-and-gujarati-language-based-on-sandec-compendium#12914
Nice cards, will definitively test them in some workshop. On order to extend the selection for other technology option you may want to make available a template to produce own own card?

For all: a generic set of Compendium technology cards as well as various other material and templates are svailable here: www.eawag.ch/forschung/sandec/publikatio...ompendium_e/index_EN

Cheers, Dorothee]]>
Faecal sludge management Thu, 16 Apr 2015 07:38:56 +0000
Re: Shit flow diagrams - does it need to be called "shit"? The use of the term shit (a swear word or not?) in sanitation dialogues - by: pkjha http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12913 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12913 I think Human waste is more simple and easy to understand. In Hindi- Manavmal (Manav means Human and Mal means excreta) is popularly used. There is no separate Hindi word for excreta, faeces, loo or poo.

pawan]]>
Faecal sludge management Thu, 16 Apr 2015 07:02:30 +0000
Re: Flash cards for Onsite sanitation systems (India; in English and Gujarati language) - based on Sandec Compendium - by: DrBates http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12867-flash-cards-for-onsite-sanitation-systems-india-in-english-and-gujarati-language-based-on-sandec-compendium#12903 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12867-flash-cards-for-onsite-sanitation-systems-india-in-english-and-gujarati-language-based-on-sandec-compendium#12903
There is an NGO that I am supporting in a project in India....please send me an email where I can correspond with you.*

By the way, on your next version of these cards, hopefully you can produce some flash cards for dry toilets like the UDDT , or perhaps you already have?

I see you are with a Urban related organization hence focus on the water based technologies.

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Note by moderator (EvM):

Any user can contact any other user with a short message by using the "message" button to the left of this post. Just try it out.
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Faecal sludge management Wed, 15 Apr 2015 11:10:56 +0000
Re: Shit flow diagrams - does it need to be called "shit"? The use of the term shit (a swear word or not?) in sanitation dialogues - by: joeturner http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12872 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12872
"'Excreta', 'faeces', 'poo', I could even say 'shit' maybe, this is the root cause of so many diseases," said Bruce Gordon, acting coordinator for sanitation and health at the World Health Organization.
from in.reuters.com/article/2014/05/08/uk-hea...dINKBN0DO1CC20140508

It was also used during a UN meeting (see my report here: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/162-pu...cretary-general#8771

If the word is being used at the highest political levels, it isn't so surprising it is being used more widely.]]>
Faecal sludge management Mon, 13 Apr 2015 14:19:30 +0000
Re: Shit flow diagrams - does it need to be called "shit"? The use of the term shit (a swear word or not?) in sanitation dialogues - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12871 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12871 "We have used the term “shit” – which I do not classify as a swear word when not used as an expletive, just a good old-fashioned and very specific Anglo-Saxon-based word in the English language [...]")

Personally, I am also not a big fan of using the term shit in the so-called "shit flow diagrams", because in my mind it only relates to feces - not to urine, let alone any flushwater. So if a shit flow diagram is meant to describe flows of fecal sludge, then it's also misleading from that point of view.

For what it's worth this is how editors on Wikipedia have described the word shit:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shit

Copy of the lead paragraph:
Shit is an English word that is usually considered vulgar and profane in Modern English. As a noun it refers to fecal matter (excrement) and as a verb it means to defecate or defecate in; in the plural ("the shits") it means diarrhea. Shite is also a common variant in British English and Irish English.[1] As a slang term, it has many meanings, including: nonsense, foolishness, something of little value or quality, trivial and usually boastful or inaccurate talk, or a contemptible person. It may also be used as an expression of annoyance, surprise, or anger.


The article then goes on to describe various uses of the word, some of them quite interesting.

I had added this part towards the end of the article:

Sanitation campaigns
Using the term "shit" (or other locally used crude words) - rather than feces or excreta - during campaigns and triggering events is a deliberate aspect of the community-led total sanitation approach which aims to stop open defecation, a massive public health problem in developing countries.[10][11]
]]>
Faecal sludge management Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:58:31 +0000
Re: Shit flow diagrams - does it need to be called "shit"? The use of the term shit (a swear word or not?) in sanitation dialogues - by: arno http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12870 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12870 Thanks for hearing about your hands-on experience. The term "shit" doesn't lend any form of credibility to the task to be carried out by government officials using taxpayers money. This should be obvious to all concerned one would think. As a tool in social marketing I would say the swear word trivializes the discussion, thus creating superficiality and little or no understanding. Just think if doctors went around using swear words for various parts of the human body that have become diseased. Would this be taken seriously by society?

Why then do people within the WaSH sector persist in using swear words to describe their work when at the same time they claim full credit for their clinically described PhDs and professor titles? Seems like a dichotomy. Are WaSH professionals just like the general public, incapacitated by the taboo? And do they resort to swear words to make themselves more acceptable to society? A complicated behaviour to say the least.

Best wishes..]]>
Faecal sludge management Mon, 13 Apr 2015 13:05:01 +0000
Re: Who is doing toilet and FSM product and technology design / R&D and what are you working on? - by: TimK http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12682-who-is-doing-toilet-and-fsm-product-and-technology-design--rad-and-what-are-you-working-on#12869 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12682-who-is-doing-toilet-and-fsm-product-and-technology-design--rad-and-what-are-you-working-on#12869
In follow up to our chats recently - yes Envirosan Sanitation Solutions is doing just this. We have been in sanitation R&D for years, separate to the BMG work, specifically focused on the South African Dry Sanitation market (VIP's and UD's) as well as the disaster relief and export side of things. We have also recently prototyped, tested and developed a low/pour-flush toilet which is fully up-gradable from VIP to UD to Low-flush OR Pour-flush.

The South African government does not have an incentive scheme specifically aimed at sanitation R&D itself, but it does come to the party in terms of broad manufacturing incentives, as well as funding a fast-paced and large-scale country wide sanitation roll-out (hence creating a developing sanitation market).

We have increased our manufacturing capacity to around 50 000 toilet pedestals a month, and do a full range of hand-washing facilities to compliment the hygienic factor. We have also increased our range of machinery to be able to blow-mold High Density Polymer Doors for stand alone sanitation units. This is having a big effect on the privacy and security aspect of sanitation in South Africa, as the door is not stolen to be sold as scrap (which is what happens to metal doors).

All of our R&D is done in house here in Durban, South Africa, and we're very keen to have anyone over for a visit if they wish! All the best, Tim.]]>
Faecal sludge management Mon, 13 Apr 2015 12:55:37 +0000
Flash cards for Onsite sanitation systems (India; in English and Gujarati language) - based on Sandec Compendium - by: aasimmansuri http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12867-flash-cards-for-onsite-sanitation-systems-india-in-english-and-gujarati-language-based-on-sandec-compendium#12867 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12867-flash-cards-for-onsite-sanitation-systems-india-in-english-and-gujarati-language-based-on-sandec-compendium#12867
Following is a link to the Flash cards developed by the Urban Management Centre and CEPT University’s Performance Assessment System (PAS) project, which classify different on-site sanitation available, encompassing all four aspects in the value chain: Collection/storage, conveyance, semi-centralized treatment and disposal/use.

sanitation.indiawaterportal.org/english/node/3215

The flash cards can be used as visual aids in the field to identify and evaluate existing systems and processes. These cards can also be used as tools to foster discussion with municipal council officers on septage/ fecal sludge management in their cities.

There are a set of 20 flash cards which cover collection, conveyance, treatment and disposal options for outputs from a pour flush user interface. These cards are color-coded as follows based on the level of acceptability and conformation to safe sanitation practices in India which may be applicable in other countries also.

Red colour : Systems and processes that are prohibited by law
Orange colour : Systems and practices that are unsafe and need to be improved/ phased out
Green colour : Acceptable and safe systems and practices

Please feel free to get back if you have any queries or suggestions.

Regards,
Aasim


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Further information added by moderator:

Visually appealing and easily comprehendible graphics from Eawag’s ‘Online Compendium of Sanitation Systems and Technologies’ help better illustrate the entire value chain of various types of on-site sanitation systems that are currently in use.]]>
Faecal sludge management Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:47:28 +0000
Re: Shit flow diagrams - does it need to be called "shit"? The use of the term shit (a swear word or not?) in sanitation dialogues - by: shobana http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12866 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10932-shit-flow-diagrams-does-it-need-to-be-called-qshitq-the-use-of-the-term-shit-a-swear-word-or-not-in-sanitation-dialogues?limit=12&start=24#12866
I wanted to share my recent experience with using the word 'shit' while explaining 'Shit flow Diagrams' to officials working in the ministry/ govt. sector.

As many of you have agreed 'whom we talk to' matters, i am not quite sure if this divide is based on where we are or the designation/ background of the person.

The main aim of SFDs, as i understand, is to promote easy understanding of faecal and waste water flow and has a great potential to be used as an advocacy tool to all the key stakeholders. So, usage of word 'shit' to explain a 'shit flow diagram' that has been developed recently seemed more appropriate.
The outcome was a negative reaction from the participants. It seemed very clear that nobody wanted the word 'Shit'. Later, it was advised that the word 'Shit', unless otherwise supported by the literature, should be changed to 'sludge' or'excreta'.
Unfortunately, i could neither find any literature using the term 'Shit Flow Diagram' nor replace shit with 'excreta' or 'sludge' (as they do not have the same meaning).

Has anybody had a similar experience with govt. officials?
Would it be necessary to scrap the usage of this term unless and until there is an official literature published when communicating with local government?

Regards,
Shobana]]>
Faecal sludge management Mon, 13 Apr 2015 11:00:27 +0000
Re: Who is doing toilet and FSM product and technology design / R&D and what are you working on? - by: jsauer http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12682-who-is-doing-toilet-and-fsm-product-and-technology-design--rad-and-what-are-you-working-on#12784 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12682-who-is-doing-toilet-and-fsm-product-and-technology-design--rad-and-what-are-you-working-on#12784
Thank you for these informative responses so far. In terms of R&D -- i'm also keen to know if there is any commercial level R&D happening above and beyond the Gates Reinvent the Toilet work.

I'm thinking companies with manufacturing facilities and the capacity to make and test prototypes, etc.

I'm also wondering if there are any advocacy efforts focused on encouraging governments to make investment in commercial R&D for sanitation as was recommended in WSP's Report Tapping the Market --

openknowledge.worldbank.org/handle/10986/16538
Tapping the Market Report

Thank you again for all of the responses so far.]]>
Faecal sludge management Wed, 08 Apr 2015 14:04:30 +0000
Re: Who is doing toilet and FSM product and technology design / R&D and what are you working on? - by: themessenger http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12682-who-is-doing-toilet-and-fsm-product-and-technology-design--rad-and-what-are-you-working-on#12779 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/12682-who-is-doing-toilet-and-fsm-product-and-technology-design--rad-and-what-are-you-working-on#12779 Is that up your street?]]> Faecal sludge management Wed, 08 Apr 2015 10:01:16 +0000 Problem related to determination of calorific value of Faecal Sludge - by: Progga http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/11381-questions-on-faecal-sludge-management-calorific-value-of-faecal-sludge-using-bomb-calorimeter-bangladesh#12774 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/11381-questions-on-faecal-sludge-management-calorific-value-of-faecal-sludge-using-bomb-calorimeter-bangladesh#12774 Faecal sludge management Tue, 07 Apr 2015 17:29:06 +0000