SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Tue, 23 Sep 2014 08:19:43 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Design parameter for Planted drying beds - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10189-design-parameter-for-planted-drying-beds#10191 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10189-design-parameter-for-planted-drying-beds#10191
You might also find some useful answers to your research questions in this thread on the forum:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-fae...r-septage-management

It was called: "Rate of filtration of septage through sand filter beds and technology for septage management".

Let us know how you get on and if you have further questions.

And how about this thread, it could also be useful (nobody has replied in it yet):
"Simple Solar Sludge Drying During the Monsoon (experience in Bangladesh)"
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-fae...rience-in-bangladesh


Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Faecal sludge management Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:34:14 +0000
Re: Design parameter for Planted drying beds - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10189-design-parameter-for-planted-drying-beds#10190 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10189-design-parameter-for-planted-drying-beds#10190 www.eawag.ch/forschung/sandec/publikationen/ewm/dl/fsm_8.pdf

While I am really not an expert on these systems, it seems to me like the construction design parameters are not possible to establish very well given the high impact of climatic conditions and the likely not very uniform sludge characteristics, i.e. yes the latter should have an effect on the design, but rarely are you dealing with a very uniform source and thus you will need to have a design that can deal with most sludges.

Typical sludge water content (and frequency of loading) might be an issue though, as you would want to prevent the beds from drying so much that the plants die. The above manual suggests an adjustable leachate outlet to control moisture content.]]>
Faecal sludge management Tue, 16 Sep 2014 07:26:28 +0000
Design parameter for Planted drying beds - by: Bertin http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10189-design-parameter-for-planted-drying-beds#10189 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/10189-design-parameter-for-planted-drying-beds#10189 My name is Bertin HARELIMANA from RWAnda, Currently doing Masters in sanitary Engineering at Unesco-Ihe. I am doing a research on Faecal sludge characterisation in which planted drying beds is one of the treatment option. So now i am getting challenged, does FS characterisation affect the design of a Planted drying beds?
Any helpful publication or explanation will be better,
Kind regards,
Bertin H.]]>
Faecal sludge management Tue, 16 Sep 2014 06:30:23 +0000
Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#10172 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#10172
This has been a very interesting discussion, where once again I learned a lot. Thank you.

What I found interesting is that right from the start, we discovered a discrepancy between the Sandec Compendium definition and the wikipedia page entry.

Sandec Compendium:

Septage: A historical term to define sludge removed from
septic tanks.


Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septage):

Septage is generally split into three parts in a septic tank:

  • Scum, which floats to the top and is generally where the bacteria live that treat the waste.
  • Effluent, which is the semi-treated liquid that comprises the majority of the material in the septic tank
  • Sludge, the solids which collect at the bottom of the tank


Now it could be a knee-jerk reaction to say "Sandec experts and reviewers know better than Wikipedia authors", but based on the discussion above we found out that there were differing interpretations of the term septage, and in my opinion this needs to be acknowledged rather than just using the adjective "historic".

Therefore, I would recommend for a future edition of the Compendium to say:

Septage: A term that is not clearly defined and which some people mean to denote sludge removed from septic tanks and others to denote the entire content of the septic tank. The authors of the compendium do not recommend use of this term anymore due to this confusion.

Now of course it could be years until there is a new hardcopy of the compendium. And it is inevitable that definitions of terms can slowly change over time. Therefore, I was wondering if the e-compendium would account for that (i.e. be dynamic and have any possible mistakes corrected) or if the e-compendium will remain static and be simply a 1:1 copy of the hardcopy. Based on Dorothee's post above, it seems that the e-Compendium could be deviating or at least giving additional links - unless I misunderstood the post (getting confused between SSWM glossary and e-Compendium glossary or are they identical)?

Another strategy that I would favor is to focus on the wikipedia pages. It must be possible to find people amongst the 4000 members of SuSanA who would spend an hour here or there to edit wikipedia pages? Then I ask myself: why am I not doing it myself? Hmmmm....

I recently read some interesting stuff about Wikipedia for health information. I will put that into a separate post.

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Faecal sludge management Mon, 15 Sep 2014 09:23:46 +0000
Re: New Article on Resource Recovery from Faecal Sludge — Can It Be the Driver for Improved Sanitation? - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/8917-new-article-on-resource-recovery-from-faecal-sludge--can-it-be-the-driver-for-improved-sanitation#10151 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/8917-new-article-on-resource-recovery-from-faecal-sludge--can-it-be-the-driver-for-improved-sanitation#10151 The question is probably more difficult than I state it now, but we are missing the management model and the support of governmental structures to support the development of such systems....
A lot of gas can be produced from FS if the management system motivates the operator.


I guess I tried to answer your question from July ahead in Feb 2014 already

Kindly see: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/97-ena...12&start=12#7358

Maybe answers are too simple and too much profit orientated!?

All the Best
Detlef]]>
Faecal sludge management Sat, 13 Sep 2014 23:08:44 +0000
Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: Florian http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#10112 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#10112
nice definition, I like it

However, from Linda's last post, it became clear that at Sandec, they prefer not to use the term "septage" and rather use "septic tank sludge", in order to reduce potential for confusion. That explains the word "historic" in the glossary entry for septage. Personally I can live with that.

Most important is that we have a reference glossary for definitions and terminologiy and I'd be happy if the Compendium / e-compendium becomes that reference.

Regards, Florian]]>
Faecal sludge management Thu, 11 Sep 2014 07:46:30 +0000
Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: dorothee.spuhler http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#10107 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#10107
I do agree with Jonathan, Sandec has done a great job and created a set workable definitions in the Compendium.
From the SSWM team, we try to stick to this definitions in order to avoid confusion. Th eCompendium uses the same Database as the SSWM Toolbox and we have recently updated the SSWM terms to make sure they are aligned with the 2nd revised edition of the Compendium:
Septage = A historical term to define sludge removed from septic tanks
(ecompendium.sswm.info/glossary/3#letters and www.sswm.info/glossary/2/letters#term94).

I have now also added the definitions of Faecal Sludge to the database (ecompendium.sswm.info/glossary/3#letterf and www.sswm.info/glossary/2/letterf#term3336 ).

I like the graph from the Compendium used for the explanations of sanitation products: ecompendium.sswm.info/approach-terminology/products



However, these are only the raw products entering the sanitation chain. When you read further in the definition of terms you then will also find additional terms for products such like sludge, dried faeces, pit humus, compost, organics, biogas, etc.
Septage is not part of this product as it is a variation of faecal sludge that in term is a variation of sludge, i.e.:
Sludge= wastewater sludge / faecal sludge
Faecal sludge= sludge coming from on-site sanitation technologies
And Septage= sludge coming from septic tanks and cesspits (but not for instance from pit latrines)
These definitions are useful in practice and help to avoid confusion - even though I assume that there are probably as much different types of sludges as as there are different sanitation technologies.

However, for the sake of clarification, I would suggest to update the current definition from the eCompendium as follows (inspired by the last post of Florian):

Septage = A term to define sludge removed from septic tanks. Septage has some specific characteristics as compared to faecal sludge as it has generally gone through some time of biological degradation and is at least partly stabilized. Feacal sludge defines a wider term and also includes fresher types of sludge from other on-site technologies such as pit latrines.

What do you think?

Cheers,
Dorothee]]>
Faecal sludge management Wed, 10 Sep 2014 21:41:00 +0000
Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: LindaStrande http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#10081 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#10081
Blackwater (the influent to septic tanks) describes the fresh mix of urine, faeces and flushwater, and is transported immediately (i.e. it does not remain as blackwater if it is stored).

Faecal sludge (FS) is a general term which is defined as “comes from onsite sanitation technologies, and has not been transported through a sewer. It is raw or partially digested, a slurry or semisolid, and results from the collection, storage or treatment of combinations of excreta and blackwater, with or without greywater. Examples of onsite technologies include pit latrines, unsewered public ablution blocks, septic tanks, aqua privies, and dry toilets. FSM includes the storage, collection, transport, treatment and safe enduse or disposal of FS. FS is highly variable in consistency, quantity, and concentration."

Septic tank sludge is a specific type of faecal sludge. Other terms we use to talk about septic tanks include scum layer and effluent.

For more information please refer to two of our recent publications, both of which can be downloaded for free:
Faecal Sludge Management: Systems Approach for Implementation and Operation
www.sandec.ch/fsm_book

Compendium of Sanitation Systems and Technologies (2nd Edition)
www.eawag.ch/forschung/sandec/publikatio...ompendium_e/index_EN]]>
Faecal sludge management Mon, 08 Sep 2014 17:39:20 +0000
Re: Rate of filtration of septage through sand filter beds and technology for septage management - by: Florian http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9857-rate-of-filtration-of-septage-through-sand-filter-beds-and-technology-for-septage-management?limit=12&start=24#10004 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9857-rate-of-filtration-of-septage-through-sand-filter-beds-and-technology-for-septage-management?limit=12&start=24#10004
For the sake of completeness to this discussion, here alos the link to unplanted drying beds: ecompendium.sswm.info/sanitation-technol...ng-beds?group_code=t]]>
Faecal sludge management Wed, 03 Sep 2014 11:30:38 +0000
Re: Rate of filtration of septage through sand filter beds and technology for septage management - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9857-rate-of-filtration-of-septage-through-sand-filter-beds-and-technology-for-septage-management?limit=12&start=24#9999 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9857-rate-of-filtration-of-septage-through-sand-filter-beds-and-technology-for-septage-management?limit=12&start=24#9999
I just want to add the link to the excellent page on Planted Drying Beds in the Ecompendium, which was recently posted here on the Forum by Dorothee. This page also includes links to relevant literature.

ecompendium.sswm.info/sanitation-technol.../planted-drying-beds

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday]]>
Faecal sludge management Wed, 03 Sep 2014 10:13:33 +0000
Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: lucasdengel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9975 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9975 Faecal sludge management Tue, 02 Sep 2014 05:04:41 +0000 Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: Florian http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9959 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9959 one more definition, from the US EPA Handbook on Septage Treatment and Disposal, 1984: forum.susana.org/media/kunena/attachment...tandDisposal_EPA.pdf

Septage is generally defined as the liquid and solid material pumped from a septic tank or a cesspool during cleaning


This is in line with the definition quoted by Elisabeth in the first post.

The main point to distinguish between septage and fecal sludge probably lies on the word "septic", which implies that the sludge has gone through some time of biological degradation and thus is at least partly stablised. Feacal sludge seems to be used as a a wider term and also includes fresher types of sludge such as from latrines or public toilets.

I'm not sure if I understand the last two posts by FH Mughal and Lucas correctly, but I don't think that only the liquid part in a septic tank should be considered septage. According to the quoted definitions (and my own understanding) septage is both liquid fraction and the solids accumulated on the bottom. The fact that more or less solids often remain in tanks after cleaning makes for part of the variability in septage characteristics.

Again another type of sludge (I think FH Mughal refers to this in part of his post) and not part of what Sandec considers as "Faecal sludge" is sewage sludge, e.i sludge separated in primary and secondary clarifiers in larger facilites for treatment of wastewater/sewage.

But well, I guess the lesson from this discussion is that when talking about sludge, we should always make clear what kind of sludge we are talking about, from wich faciliteies it is colleced.

Best, Florian]]>
Faecal sludge management Sun, 31 Aug 2014 20:19:31 +0000
Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: F H Mughal http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9955 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9955
There could be local variations in the terms used. In government schemes here, sewerage is termed drainage. There is a major difference between the two.

Sewage is the term mostly used here in rural areas, while urban areas use the term wastewater. In rural areas here, the excreta from toilets is taken as solid waste!! - mind boggling, isn't it??!!

F H Mughal]]>
Faecal sludge management Sun, 31 Aug 2014 17:49:15 +0000
Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: lucasdengel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9945 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9945 It would be useful and helpful to differentiate these terms, particularly in practice, as services for de-sludging seem to be convinced that they should "empty" a septic tank i.e. take out all septage; while the actual requirement is removal of settled solids - and even this purposefully incompletely so as to leave the microbial populations to continue the job -, so removal of solids to a large extent so as to give the inflowing sewage enough time to separate solids and floating scum from the liquids.]]> Faecal sludge management Sun, 31 Aug 2014 05:45:29 +0000 Re: Is there a difference between faecal sludge and septage? - The issue of confusing terminology - by: pkjha http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9935 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/53-faecal-sludge-management/9905-is-there-a-difference-between-faecal-sludge-and-septage-the-issue-of-confusing-terminology?limit=12&start=12#9935
"Faecal Sludge Management – also known as septage management, FSM concerns the various technologies and mechanisms that can be used to treat and dispose of sludge – the general term for solid matter with highly variable water content produced by septic tanks, latrines, and wastewater treatment plants".
It shows there is very little or no difference in the use of two terminology. In fact book on Faecal Sludge Management describes mainly of septage - contents of septic tanks.

pawan]]>
Faecal sludge management Sat, 30 Aug 2014 05:55:06 +0000