SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Thu, 27 Nov 2014 21:48:11 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Open discussion on MOSAN toilet design - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4710-piloting-mobile-sanitation-with-full-service-provision-mosan-now-in-kenya?limit=12&start=12#9046 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4710-piloting-mobile-sanitation-with-full-service-provision-mosan-now-in-kenya?limit=12&start=12#9046 practicalaction.org/blog/news/safer-citi...sanitation-projects/

I doubt one could move a 200kg loaded rickshaw with all the hills (and badly maintained road-sides) here in Kampala though. Never the less, cheap and convenient transport is probably the missing link for a full sanitation service provision chain.]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:57:11 +0000
Re: Mobile toilet in Ghana (WSUP), the Clean Team (and faecal sludge management) - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8607 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8607
www.wsup.com/2014/05/12/the-kumasi-smell...rt-and-installation/]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Tue, 13 May 2014 17:16:58 +0000
Re: Mobile toilet in Ghana (WSUP), the Clean Team (and faecal sludge management) - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8504 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8504
A couple of things to clarify - I don't work for or represent Clean Team. However, Cranfield University has been contracted by WSUP (who were involved in founding Clean Team) to investigate options for treating Clean Team's waste. There should be a blog post about this research appearing on the WSUP website soon.

We'll start our field trials in July (hopefully) so after that we'll have an idea about how biological systems handle the "blue liquid".

We're not responsible for any changes to the "blue liquid" but I'll point the relevant staff in Clean Team to this thread to read your suggestions.

Alison]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Wed, 07 May 2014 08:24:36 +0000
Re: Mobile toilet in Ghana (WSUP), the Clean Team (and faecal sludge management) - by: Kevinkuhn http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8501 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8501
I am not quite sure why you assumed that they might use domestos, because there are way better sanitizing liquids on the market, which don´t harm biological WW treatment.

For example, Aqua Kem Green, www.thetford-europe.com/product/aqua-kem-green/ . This is the most commonly used liquid for camping toilets.

However, this product could be considered as 'green liquid' and is obviously not the one used by Clean Team. The same company also supplies a 'blue liquid' which does´t have such good properties regarding the biological decomposition of fecal matter.

I am still curious to find out if the biological treatment system for the Clean Team project can handle the blue liquid and which one you use exactly. Maybe, you Alison, could have a look on such 'green liquid' and might consider it as an opportunity for your systems? In this scenario it would also be interesting to see, if that would raise costs for purchasing the liquid and how the user reactions are compared to the blue liquid.

@Alison, thanks for answering my earlier questions, I am looking forward to get an idea if such green liquid would be an option for Clean Teams treatment system?

Thanks,
Kevin.]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Wed, 07 May 2014 07:22:01 +0000
Re: The Clam - A compostable chamber pot. - by: Billy http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/7649-the-clam-a-compostable-chamber-pot#8405 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/7649-the-clam-a-compostable-chamber-pot#8405 Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Thu, 01 May 2014 15:10:58 +0000 Re: Technology for treating Clean Team waste - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8396 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8396
It's not domestos! As you say that would be inappropriate!

Alison]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Wed, 30 Apr 2014 13:23:48 +0000
Re: Open discussion on MOSAN toilet design - by: Mona http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4710-piloting-mobile-sanitation-with-full-service-provision-mosan-now-in-kenya?limit=12&start=12#8360 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4710-piloting-mobile-sanitation-with-full-service-provision-mosan-now-in-kenya?limit=12&start=12#8360
Just today I talked with Sanivation about the challenges of up-scaling a container-based sanitation solutions. It all depends on the collection and transport. Sanergy does a great job and shows that it is possible, even with big and heavy feces buckets from public toilets. For a household toilet, like the MoSan, the challenge is to keep the collection as low-cost as possible. On one hand we want to provide an always fresh toilet to the user, on the other hand the cost rises if multiple people are emploeyed to collect a high number of buckets several times per week. I admit, we are still looking for the best compromise between convenience and cost. Luckily a few MoSan prototypes are still in use in Kenya, so we are able to test different options.

Thanks again for the link!
Mona]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Mon, 28 Apr 2014 21:23:38 +0000
Re: Technology for treating Clean Team waste - by: ben http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8359 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8359
I just wanted to ask you an extra question.
From an outside point of view, and please correct me if I'm wrong, it seems that the "blue liquid" you're using might be close to DOMESTOS, maybe diluted, one of the frontline product sold by Unilever, partner and funder of the ghanasan clean team project.

If this is so, then I invite you to check what this product is made of :
www.astleys.co.uk/acatalog/58043-5_Domestos_Regular_Bleach.pdf

Amines,C12 – 18 – alkyldimethyl, N-oxides / Sodium Hydroxide (OES) / Sodium hypochlorit.

The informations we find in this paper :
DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS
Small quantities: Wear suitable gloves and eye/face protection. Dilute with water to at least 5% w/v (50 g/litre) and pour down a wastewater drain (foul sewer).
Large quantities: contact a licensed waste management company. Dispose of according to local authority regulations
European waste catalogue 20 01 29 : Detergents containing dangerous substances
Very toxic to aquatic organisms

I checked but not a single product from DOMESTOS seems ecological.

My question is, if DOMESTOS (and again tell me if this is not the product we're talking about) has been sold since 1961 by unilever, can you confirm that Unilever can't actually help you for the downstream treatment of this product, that they never though about ?

I hope I'm wrong, and that Unilever is actually fighting for sustainability, as said :
www.domestos.co.uk/sustainable-cleaning/
www.unileverghana.com/sustainable-living...ainable-living-plan/

Good luck in treating it Alison, and thanks for keeping us updated.

Ben]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Mon, 28 Apr 2014 19:56:54 +0000
Re: Open discussion on MOSAN toilet design - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4710-piloting-mobile-sanitation-with-full-service-provision-mosan-now-in-kenya?limit=12&start=12#8353 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4710-piloting-mobile-sanitation-with-full-service-provision-mosan-now-in-kenya?limit=12&start=12#8353
I saw on your website that you are looking into non-motorized fecal sludge transportation options. Ever since reading about the Chinese wheelbarrow type here: www.lowtechmagazine.com/2011/12/the-chinese-wheelbarrow.html I thought this would be a great option for transporting fecal sludge through the narrow roads of a typical informal settlement.
Maybe something to look into?]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Mon, 28 Apr 2014 09:45:08 +0000
Re: The Clam - A compostable chamber pot. - by: Billy http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/7649-the-clam-a-compostable-chamber-pot#8345 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/7649-the-clam-a-compostable-chamber-pot#8345 Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Sun, 27 Apr 2014 11:18:48 +0000 Re: Technology for treating Clean Team waste - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8344 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8344 muench wrote:
For his Question 2 my guess would be that since it is still a bit of a "pilot", it may not be worth the hassle of producing these toilets locally but that this is probably the long-term goal. Although, mind you, perhaps we are too "hung up" about local production of things - mobile phones are also not produced locally but successful all over the world... Maybe with some types of (plastic) toilets, the same will be true in the end? Just guessing.


This is definitely outside my area of expertise, but I'm not sure there is currently the manufacturing capacity in Ghana? This was the impression i got when visiting a septic tank manufacturer in Accra recently.

muench wrote:
For Kevin's third question, I am also curious - but maybe there is just no market for these fertilisers from excreta, perhaps the soils in Kumasi, Ghana are so fertile as it is (that one one arguments I heard from Uganda why reuse is not a big deal there in the Kampala region at least). Correct me if I am wrong.


Sorry, I missed this bit in my last post. At the moment we are focused on treating the waste so it can be discharged safely without causing a health hazard. This has to be a priority! Then maybe we'll get the chance to look at reuse of nutrients in a subsequent project. Cranfield have a student looking at down-flow adsorption filters for AD effluent and Duke University are developing something similar. But both systems are still under development so couldn't be used in our upcoming trial.

muench wrote:
There is one thing, however, that I still don't get. And that is the blue liquid. We spoke about this kind of liquid in another thread on composting, see e.g. the post by Wolfang Berger here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-com...gemobile-toilet#7344).
See also here for one example of such a liquid for mobile toilets: www.safetfresh.co.uk/products/stf/ - I am not saying this is the one being used by Clean Team.

I understand it is needed in the Clean Team Toilets in order to control odour in the faeces bucket (even though urine is diverted away and collected separately).
See also this blog post from Gavin Collins about visiting Clean Team in Accra:
microbialecophysiology.com/2014/04/12/vi...to-clean-team-ghana/

Photos that he posted in his Twitter account:

twitter.com/gcollinsgalway/status/454213251791093760/photo/1

twitter.com/gcollinsgalway/status/454210123612061696/photo/1

So my question is, why is the blue liquid required for odour control for this type of toilet whereas it is not for other, similar mobile urine diversion toilets, such as:


Photo of mobile UD toilet from SOIL's website:
twitter.com/SOILHaiti/status/458247946048245760/photo/1


I can think of the following possible reasons (just guessing!):
  1. The customers in Kumasi, Ghana, are more sensitive to smell and are less willing to put up with any smell.
  2. The faeces bucket is emptied less frequently in the Clean Team model than in the other models I mentioned above.
  3. The customers in Kumasi are less diligent and there is more urine going into the faeces bucket than it should.
  4. The blue liquid is not only for odour control but also for aesthetic reasons because the customers prefer to view a blue liquid when they sit down to defecate, rather than their faeces from the time before.
  5. The blue liquid gives the toilet a "modern", Western feeling.

Are any of these possible reasons the actual reason?


Again, this is really down to Clean Team to respond but I would say from my recent visit reason 4 is the closest. The Clean Team toilet has a very simple design, there is no "trapdoor" or anything else in their toilet. So the dark blue liquid means the user does not see the waste, and it also masks the smell. The latter is very important as many customers have the toilets in their homes, even in their bedrooms!]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Sun, 27 Apr 2014 10:06:57 +0000
Re: Technology for treating Clean Team waste - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8341 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8341
Thanks for answering some of Kevin's questions, and helping us to understand the system of Clean Team better!

For his Question 2 my guess would be that since it is still a bit of a "pilot", it may not be worth the hassle of producing these toilets locally but that this is probably the long-term goal. Although, mind you, perhaps we are too "hung up" about local production of things - mobile phones are also not produced locally but successful all over the world... Maybe with some types of (plastic) toilets, the same will be true in the end? Just guessing.

For Kevin's third question, I am also curious - but maybe there is just no market for these fertilisers from excreta, perhaps the soils in Kumasi, Ghana are so fertile as it is (that one one arguments I heard from Uganda why reuse is not a big deal there in the Kampala region at least). Correct me if I am wrong.

There is one thing, however, that I still don't get. And that is the blue liquid. We spoke about this kind of liquid in another thread on composting, see e.g. the post by Wolfang Berger here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-com...gemobile-toilet#7344).
See also here for one example of such a liquid for mobile toilets: www.safetfresh.co.uk/products/stf/ - I am not saying this is the one being used by Clean Team.

I understand it is needed in the Clean Team Toilets in order to control odour in the faeces bucket (even though urine is diverted away and collected separately).
See also this blog post from Gavin Collins about visiting Clean Team in Accra:
microbialecophysiology.com/2014/04/12/vi...to-clean-team-ghana/

Photos that he posted in his Twitter account:

twitter.com/gcollinsgalway/status/454213251791093760/photo/1

twitter.com/gcollinsgalway/status/454210123612061696/photo/1

So my question is, why is the blue liquid required for odour control for this type of toilet whereas it is not for other, similar mobile urine diversion toilets, such as:


Photo of mobile UD toilet from SOIL's website:
twitter.com/SOILHaiti/status/458247946048245760/photo/1


I can think of the following possible reasons (just guessing!):
  1. The customers in Kumasi, Ghana, are more sensitive to smell and are less willing to put up with any smell.
  2. The faeces bucket is emptied less frequently in the Clean Team model than in the other models I mentioned above.
  3. The customers in Kumasi are less diligent and there is more urine going into the faeces bucket than it should.
  4. The blue liquid is not only for odour control but also for aesthetic reasons because the customers prefer to view a blue liquid when they sit down to defecate, rather than their faeces from the time before.
  5. The blue liquid gives the toilet a "modern", Western feeling.

Are any of these possible reasons the actual reason?

Kind regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Sat, 26 Apr 2014 20:41:55 +0000
Re: Technology for treating Clean Team waste - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8324 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4040-mobile-toilet-in-ghana-wsup-the-clean-team-and-faecal-sludge-management?limit=12&start=12#8324
As explained earlier in this thread, we're currently working with Clean Team to develop a treatment system for their waste (look out for a post on WSUP's blog about this soon). All the systems we're looking at use biological treatment so we're hoping the blue liquid won't adversely affect this, but we won't know until we've tried it! We'll also need to make sure the waste that we discharge is of a suitable standard to discharge into a water course. There are guidelines from the Ghana EPA but actually they're very high (higher than in the UK!). We'll also look to maximise biogas and fertiliser recovery but the effluent quality is our first priority.

There shouldn't be anything other than the blue liquid and faeces in the waste as no other sawdust etc is added. The cost of the blue liquid is included in the overall servicing charge for the toilet.

I hope this answers your questions about the waste treatment but let me know if there's anything else!

Alison]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:53:35 +0000
Re: The Clam - A compostable chamber pot. - by: Mona http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/7649-the-clam-a-compostable-chamber-pot#8322 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/7649-the-clam-a-compostable-chamber-pot#8322 Thanks for sharing and welcome to SuSanA forum! The chamber pot recipe sounds great. I'm very curious to know more, since I started in February to research on the same idea. I found a company that produces cellulose bowls for hospital toilets. The bowls are from recycled paper and are supposed to be water-tight at least for 4h. See their website: www.ecopatent.net/Bowl-for-Toilet-Seat-NT-CB-1/ (for some reason there are many more products shown on their German website, just change the language to see more)
Very interesting are the disposable urinals for men and women that are also made from cellulose and keep up to 1,5 liters of urine. The bowls and urinals are disposed into a machine (macerator) that defibrates and liquefies it. The sludge is disposed into the sewerage system.

Im experimenting with the bowls right now and would like to know more about your version.
- how long does your chamber hold the waste without leaking?
- how is the ratio, cardboard to grass clippings?
- could you post a picture?

Thanks in advance!
Mona

here a picture of the test with home-made fake-poop! ]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Thu, 24 Apr 2014 16:21:23 +0000
Re: Piloting mobile sanitation with full service provision (MoSan, now in Kenya) - by: Mona http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4710-piloting-mobile-sanitation-with-full-service-provision-mosan-now-in-kenya?limit=12&start=12#8178 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mobile-or-portable-solutions-public-toilets/4710-piloting-mobile-sanitation-with-full-service-provision-mosan-now-in-kenya?limit=12&start=12#8178
I asked users to deliver their inner feces containers from the MoSan to our central treatment site, where Sanivation's concentrator is located.
- We had little time to find people who are willing to try it. Either people were busy preparing their crops, others find it more convenient that the collector comes to their house and others were limited in mobility (disabled person and mother with children)
- to simplify the container collection, I still think the deliverance/ drop off of feces containers by users themselves could be an alternative, but it is important to have well planned servicing zones and short ways till the next "Treatment Site"
- in this case the container plays a more important role. it does not only need to fulfill technical requirements for safe transport, also cultural and aesthetical. people will be more willing to carry "a bucket of shit" if it transports attributes like cleanliness, hygiene and supports the idea of sanitation as a status symbol!

During collection times, people were not at home and we had to deal with delays:
- one solution is to place container outside the house at a safe place (e.g. behind the gate)
- in this case, the container needs an outstanding design or labeling to avoid stealing and confusion with existing containers in the neighborhood

Another interesting fact is that users prefer a male collector!
- the reason is that women are more likely to do gossip and are more curious regarding your home and privacy. Users explained that our male collector is perfect for the job, because he is just doing his business and not paying attention to your house and private things.

In Kenya people buy things usually on demand (single-portion packages for tea, coffee, washing powder, phone credit in very low amounts, etc.)
- this should be considered when designing the payment options for the sanitation service, e.g. pay per week or number of collections per month
- in Kenya phone payments are very common and famous. It could be possible to transfer a small fee after each collection

I will upload a flickr photo album and share more pictures with you!

All the best,
Mona



The collector service: The user asked the collector to enter her house and do the replacement inside.]]>
Mobile or portable solutions, public toilets Thu, 10 Apr 2014 10:42:40 +0000