SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Thu, 23 May 2013 14:04:06 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: How does CLTS in Africa compare to CLTS in Asia? - by: Petra http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4238 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4238

Best wishes,
Petra]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Wed, 24 Apr 2013 14:40:58 +0000 Re: How does CLTS in Africa compare to CLTS in Asia? - by: Petra http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4237 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4237 www.communityledtotalsanitation.org/reso...led-total-sanitation and other resources on the CLTS website www.communityledtotalsanitation.org. There is no particular age group for CLTS- it is a community-wide approach which means everyone gets on board, young and old.
For your second question, have a look at the CLTS handbook and the following resource on favourable and unfavourable conditions for CLTS> www.communityledtotalsanitation.org/reso...led-total-sanitation
You might also like to talk to Shah Nasir Khisro This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it of IRSP Mardan, Pakistan who can share specific experiences and knowledge on CLTS in Pakistan with you.

Hope this helps,

Petra]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Wed, 24 Apr 2013 14:33:58 +0000 Re: How does CLTS in Africa compare to CLTS in Asia? - by: Khan http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4227 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4227
who would like to let me know:
1. What age of people we can focus in CLTS? and Why?
2. Where CLTS can be success and in which kind/type of communities?]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Wed, 24 Apr 2013 03:11:47 +0000 Re: How does CLTS in Africa compare to CLTS in Asia? - by: andyroxhat http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4224 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4224 CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Tue, 23 Apr 2013 13:26:35 +0000 Re: How does CLTS in Africa compare to CLTS in Asia? - by: Petra http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4221 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4221
As for some of the other comments above, I have invited CLTS practitioners from NGOs and governments to respond.

Best wishes, and apologies for the broken link.
Petra]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Tue, 23 Apr 2013 12:12:44 +0000 Re: How does CLTS in Africa compare to CLTS in Asia? - by: AnanyaGh http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4217 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4217
Yes, (as Mr. Brachken has pointed out), the link does not seem to work. It says some "Error 404: Sorry, the page you are trying to view cannot be found." Can you please check?

Thanks,

Ananya

+++++++++++++++
Note by moderator (EvM): I have already e-mailed Petra Bongartz about this and she is onto it. She wrote back: Hi Elisabeth, I will check it out and fix it. And can also suggest another relevant resource on the Forum.

Best wishes,

Petra]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Tue, 23 Apr 2013 07:53:20 +0000 Re: How does CLTS in Africa compare to CLTS in Asia? - by: bracken http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4203 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/145-how-does-clts-in-africa-compare-to-clts-in-asia?limit=12&start=12#4203 CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Mon, 22 Apr 2013 11:26:31 +0000 Re: What are your thoughts on urban CLTS? Can it work? - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/1334-what-are-your-thoughts-on-urban-clts-can-it-work#4202 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/1334-what-are-your-thoughts-on-urban-clts-can-it-work#4202 By a quick glance, it seems the relation to urban CLTS seems to be mainly the CLUES approach? www.susana.org/lang-en/library?view=ccbk...p;type=2&id=1300

Since you worked on that extensively, could you maybe quickly summarize the the similarities and differences between CLUES and CLTS for the benefit of the others? Thanks!]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Mon, 22 Apr 2013 10:46:02 +0000 Re: What are your thoughts on urban CLTS? Can it work? - by: laurabrightdavies http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/1334-what-are-your-thoughts-on-urban-clts-can-it-work#4198 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/1334-what-are-your-thoughts-on-urban-clts-can-it-work#4198
To continue this thread, I would like to share the research results of my recently completed master thesis on the topic of "Urban Environmental Sanitation in Nepal: An assessment of community-scale, decentralised wastewater management in Nepal, and the potential or a community-led urban environmental sanitation approach in Tansen." This research provides a comparative assessment of case studies from the Nepalese urban and peri-urban communities of Sunga, Srikhandapur, Nala and Bhusal Danda.

You can view the full document here

In addition, a summary of my research findings can be viewed in the attached the PowerPoint presentation.


I hope this research can provide some additional perspectives on the topic of urban community-led sanitation, particularly in regards to decentralised wastewater treatment systems (DEWATS) and management in developing countries.

Kindest Regards,

Laura Bright-Davies]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Mon, 22 Apr 2013 07:30:53 +0000 Re: Incentive based Community Led Total Sanitation (CLTS) - by: psakoro http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/1843-incentive-based-community-led-total-sanitation-clts#4109 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/1843-incentive-based-community-led-total-sanitation-clts#4109 Abdoulaye]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Wed, 10 Apr 2013 13:18:29 +0000 Re: Incentive based Community Led Total Sanitation (CLTS) - by: AnanyaGh http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/1843-incentive-based-community-led-total-sanitation-clts#4107 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/1843-incentive-based-community-led-total-sanitation-clts#4107
It is good to note this mixture. Great job!!!

-Ananya]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Wed, 10 Apr 2013 12:15:53 +0000 Re: CLTS and human rights: Should the right to community-wide health be won at the cost of individual rights? - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/3186-clts-and-human-rights-should-the-right-to-community-wide-health-be-won-at-the-cost-of-individual-rights?limit=12&start=12#3542 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/3186-clts-and-human-rights-should-the-right-to-community-wide-health-be-won-at-the-cost-of-individual-rights?limit=12&start=12#3542 joeturner wrote:

With regard to CLTS, I cannot see anyone having enough knowledge of mesoscale co-composting to safely construct their own system, can you?


Yes, good idea to get back on topic

In my opinion CLTS alone only really works (and was originally intended and tested) in remote rural areas. This is both because of social factors (which partly plays into the problems that were discussed previously in this topic) and because in low population density areas low-tech solutions like the Arborloo that don't require emptying are usually acceptable from a public health point of view. Besides that, you will rarely find an rural area with a high percentage of flush toilet systems, the remaining users could aspire too
However, some components of CLTS can be used in an (peri-)urban setting for demand creation of a service model that incorporates meso-scale composting for example.]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Thu, 21 Feb 2013 11:57:49 +0000 Re: CLTS and human rights: Should the right to community-wide health be won at the cost of individual rights? - by: joeturner http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/3186-clts-and-human-rights-should-the-right-to-community-wide-health-be-won-at-the-cost-of-individual-rights?limit=12&start=12#3540 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/3186-clts-and-human-rights-should-the-right-to-community-wide-health-be-won-at-the-cost-of-individual-rights?limit=12&start=12#3540 JKMakowka wrote:
I agree that if the SA's government has a law that they have to offer basic sanitation, and that if they build VIPs in the past in the same area (I assume the flush toilets where self financed?) the solution for the remaining inhabitants should be equally convenient (to avoid wasting money on something that isn't used). However if there isn't any money for that, what exactly is the respective agency supposed to do?


I'm not offering solutions as much as illustrating that it is a rational belief to reject CLTS and poor sanitation offerings, even if they can be said to be better than no sanitation.

But as mentioned above, a properly designed and operated dry toilet, with a feces collection system and professionally run composting sites is vastly superior in any sense to a VIP toilet that is emptied from time to time (and the sludge dumped somewhere).


Totally agree on this point. Mesoscale composting is the only ecosan composting toilet system that works. All other types of composting toilet are bunk.

Of course, there are very high health risks associated with the collection and operation of a co-composting site, especially for the workers.

And a case could be made that it is also better than the typical "leaky sewer, no properly running waste-water treatment plant and discharge into a water body that is used for drinking water abstraction, fishing, irrigation etc." classical solutions, besides being much more cost efficient.


I think we agree more than we disagree. Properly run mesoscale composting and vermiculture systems are the answer. VIP latrines and pit latrines are not. But even that is a minority view, as far as I can tell.

I am no fan of flush toilet systems, mesoscale composting sites work well. But it is definitely true to say that a person who has a bucket or a VIP latrine is aspiring to something better by looking for a flush system. The challenge is therefore to persuade him that a composting system is as good as a flush system, rather than to try to persuade him to use poor quality bucket or VIP systems.

With regard to CLTS, I cannot see anyone having enough knowledge of mesoscale co-composting to safely construct their own system, can you?]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:22:12 +0000 Re: CLTS and human rights: Should the right to community-wide health be won at the cost of individual rights? - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/3186-clts-and-human-rights-should-the-right-to-community-wide-health-be-won-at-the-cost-of-individual-rights?limit=12&start=12#3539 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/3186-clts-and-human-rights-should-the-right-to-community-wide-health-be-won-at-the-cost-of-individual-rights?limit=12&start=12#3539
But as mentioned above, a properly designed and operated dry toilet, with a feces collection system and professionally run composting sites is vastly superior in any sense to a VIP toilet that is emptied from time to time (and the sludge dumped somewhere).
And a case could be made that it is also better than the typical "leaky sewer, no properly running waste-water treatment plant and discharge into a water body that is used for drinking water abstraction, fishing, irrigation etc." classical solutions, besides being much more cost efficient and less prone to technical breakdown.]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Thu, 21 Feb 2013 10:07:22 +0000 Re: CLTS and human rights: Should the right to community-wide health be won at the cost of individual rights? - by: joeturner http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/3186-clts-and-human-rights-should-the-right-to-community-wide-health-be-won-at-the-cost-of-individual-rights?limit=12&start=12#3538 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/5-clts-community-led-total-sanitation/3186-clts-and-human-rights-should-the-right-to-community-wide-health-be-won-at-the-cost-of-individual-rights?limit=12&start=12#3538 JKMakowka wrote:
The article you linked was not very specific in details. However was there some specific thing actively preventing them from building an flush toilet themselves? If not I don't quite understand your issue.


I'm sorry, I was blogging about the concept rather than the specifics. In brief they are that the SA government has a responsibility to ensure that everyone has basic sanitation. In Durban/eThekwini, over 80% of residents have flush toilets. Of the rest, there has been a massive programme of building VIP-style latrines, which are emptied periodically by the municipality. This particular group has been offered UDDT which are basically buckets for reasons of cost. More details here

That they could build their own flush toilets is irrelevant. The government has decided that it cannot afford to offer them more than bucket toilets.


From a regulators point of view it is correct to force people to have *some* sort of sanitation solution for public health reasons, so either they build themselves what they consider adequate, or they have to accept what is being offered.


Which ignores the objective fact that bucket toilets are totally inadequate. And also does not engage with my point - in that human psychology means that people are inclined to reject things when they feel they are being short-changed. In this case they are right, they are being short-changed.


Of course a smart offer would include a cash subsidy equal to what the offered solution would cost, but not in every case that is really feasible or anywhere near of what people would need to pay for the flush toilet.


A smart solution would be to offer people a sanitation offering which is adequate. Clearly by any measure a bucket toilet is not as good as a VIP toilet which is not as good as a flush toilet.

Now a different case would be if they were offered an expensive but inadequate solution, like done in a case with a badly designed vacuum toilet system in South Africa etc.
I don't know anything about that.

Besides (but I guess you know that) a properly designed and operated waterless toilet is not inferior to a flush toilet (I wouldn't mind switching myself, and have used one for longer periods in the past).


Based on what, exactly, do you make that statement? Dry toilets do not kill pathogens sufficiently to be safe. So no, they are definitely inferior and are unsafe. I accept there are different types of flush toilet and that there are problems where they flush into septic tanks. But a drain-and-sewer flush toilet is absolutely and undoubtedly safer than any kind of dry urine diversion toilet or VIP system.

It is not about the design and engineering, it is about the science. Small scale cold composting does not kill the pathogens. Therefore it doesn't work. Therefore it is not safe.]]> CLTS (Community led total sanitation) Thu, 21 Feb 2013 09:46:57 +0000