SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Fri, 19 Dec 2014 03:55:30 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Closed loop recycling of flush water through ABR and Constructed Wetland? - by: denniskl http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11393-closed-loop-recycling-of-flush-water-through-abr-and-constructed-wetland#11407 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11393-closed-loop-recycling-of-flush-water-through-abr-and-constructed-wetland#11407
yes it does seem sensible to re-use blackwater as toilet flush greywater (after on site processing) in a continual loop, topped up as required from rainwater collection systems, other greywater diversions or mains as the case may be.

How much treatment and to what level of pathogen kill is required for this type of re-use? 100% or lower?

I guess the question is (for most settings), can it be done at household level with a system technology that is low cost, low maintenance, low impact and has a low "behavioural change? requirement?

Perhaps can be designed for commercial settings as a scaled up pilot then "slimmed down" for households?]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Thu, 18 Dec 2014 21:50:48 +0000
Re: Closed loop recycling of flush water through ABR and Constructed Wetland? - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11393-closed-loop-recycling-of-flush-water-through-abr-and-constructed-wetland#11402 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11393-closed-loop-recycling-of-flush-water-through-abr-and-constructed-wetland#11402
Thanks for this spectacular example. Many, however, would be worried about pharmaceutical drugs and potentially even normal, natural human hormones.

I would like to find cases where the flush water is simple recycled as flush water, especially at a large, public institution (and preferably with normal employees and not only super DIY homeowners).

Reclaimed Water, after wastewater treatment, sometimes gets used even for drinking water in more and more places in the world.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reclaimed_water
(This is a wikipedia page that could stand some serious editing.)
This is much more worrisome, in terms of pharmaceuticals, etc., than using this reclaimed water for flushing toilets once again.

Why is this not standard procedure? Why is it not listed among the options in the Eawag Compendium? Is there any reason not to do this, beside people's mindset?

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Thu, 18 Dec 2014 13:58:23 +0000
Re: Closed loop recycling of flush water through ABR and Constructed Wetland? - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11393-closed-loop-recycling-of-flush-water-through-abr-and-constructed-wetland#11398 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11393-closed-loop-recycling-of-flush-water-through-abr-and-constructed-wetland#11398
Under our "cold" condition, my close colleague Mr. Pollmaecher is doing this kind of "up-scale applications" for him self (6-8 pe) via AV-ABR, vCW (4m2/pe), slow sand filter (cascading), Koi-fish pond/swimming pool, using the wwtp effluent outlet water for pond, wash-machine, WC and vegetable garden and tree irrigation. He needs supplementing with rainwater. In other words, his property do not "supply" sewage to outside.
See: aqua-verde.de/bilder-galerien/nutzwasser...ur-abwasser-kosten/#

AV-ABR and vCW:

Slow-sand filter:




The wwtp-effluent do not have any e-coli's at all.

I hope this helps...

Mr. Pollmaecher is a very "handy man" (DIY)!
I would not suggest this kind of systems for any kind of lazy "users", just maintained by bad paid domestic care takers (gardeners).

All the best
Detlef]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Wed, 17 Dec 2014 20:14:14 +0000
Closed loop recycling of flush water through ABR and Constructed Wetland? - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11393-closed-loop-recycling-of-flush-water-through-abr-and-constructed-wetland#11393 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11393-closed-loop-recycling-of-flush-water-through-abr-and-constructed-wetland#11393
I am looking for cases of direct reuse of processed blackwater for flushing the same toilets again. This would resolve many problems at the same time:
-- People can use the same flush toilets that they are used to.
-- Demand for water would be greatly reduced.
-- Pharmaceuticals and other contaminants that cannot be entirely removed during treatment do not go into rivers or anywhere else in the open environment.

This would be safe and acceptable because:
-- Biological treatment (e.g., ABR + CW) reliably eliminates pathogenic bacteria, smell and color.
-- Users would not have contact with this water.
-- Those who clean flush toilets already apply precautionary measures, such as long-handled brushes, gloves, etc.

It seems that the only real obstacle is people's linear, disposable, one-use, throw-away mind-set.

This would involve some additional piping and pumping, the latter of which could be done with pumps that also serve as exercise equipment, such as Treadle Pumps
()

So far, I propose processing the blackwater in ABRs (Anaerobic Baffled Reactors) for 24 hours (and maybe recover biogas), then at least 3 days in a Vertical-flow, Subsurface Constructed Wetland. All suggestions are welcome. (The idea is for there to also be UDDTs that users can opt to use if they prefer.)

I am proposing this to an institution here in Ecuador and would like to find more support for this, especially up-scale applications where people are doing this with no problems.

This would be true / re use /.

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Wed, 17 Dec 2014 13:48:12 +0000
Re: New project - Sustainable freshwater supply for Urbanizing Maputo, Mozambique - TU Delft, Unesco-IHE, UEM - by: AndreMA http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10433-new-project-sustainable-freshwater-supply-for-urbanizing-maputo-mozambique-tu-delft-unesco-ihe-uem#11240 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10433-new-project-sustainable-freshwater-supply-for-urbanizing-maputo-mozambique-tu-delft-unesco-ihe-uem#11240 sustainablewatermz.weblog.tudelft.nl/201...month-in-mozambique/]]> Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Wed, 03 Dec 2014 14:21:19 +0000 Re: New project - Sustainable freshwater supply for Urbanizing Maputo, Mozambique - TU Delft, Unesco-IHE, UEM - by: AndreMA http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10433-new-project-sustainable-freshwater-supply-for-urbanizing-maputo-mozambique-tu-delft-unesco-ihe-uem#11180 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10433-new-project-sustainable-freshwater-supply-for-urbanizing-maputo-mozambique-tu-delft-unesco-ihe-uem#11180
I would like to thank you for your warm welcome and apologize for this late reply but the past few months have been hectic and some tasks were left behind.

1) Water reuse vs sustainable sanitation
I found the discussion about the system in Braunschweig, Germany very interesting. However, we do not define our project as ecosan but as sustainable and that is very different; I do agree that ecosan implies urine and feces separation and the absence of industrial waste.

In our case, we still know very little about the sewerage system, what arrives at the plant and how is the plant operating. Once we have it fully characterized we will be able to decide what should be done in order to produce safe water for irrigation: what kind of treatment should be built and what type of use can be made.

Btw, there is an "real" ecosan project in Maputo, with about 60 eco latrines, and I am planning to study it in more detail next year.

2) The "nasties" in the water
We have not yet quantified this for the case of Maputo but there are not many big industries connected to the WWTP. The big gas, oil, coal industries are based in the center and north of the country. In Maputo there's an Aluminum smelter that treats its own wastewater and discharges it directly to the the river. In the city, very close to the WWTP, there are beer and beverage factories but I don't think that these pose serious problems regarding quality of effluent (eg, presence of heavy metals).

However, there are indeed some problems, with trucks bringing illegally solid-waste to the premises of the plant and discharging car oil into the lagoons. And these are the problems that we know of - because we see the oil and the solid waste. There's still plenty of work to be done in order to fully understand the system, how it's being operated and how it should be improved.

3) The WWTP and unsafe water reuse
Simply put: the plant is not working; an example, it's a system of four lagoons (two anaerobic + two facultative) that were de-sludged for the last time in 2007. I had a student characterizing its operation; check our webpage for an overview of the available publications.

The farmers in the vicinity of the WWTP are indeed using the effluent of the plant. We have seen it and we have talked to farmers who say they do it (check this blog post). I am planning to study this in more detail next year.

4) SPLASH project
I've not yet had contact with them.

Finally, I'm working on a blog post regarding the month I spent in Mozambique and this will be available on our blog on Tuesday (02/12/2014). So check it if you wish to know more.]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Fri, 28 Nov 2014 13:34:58 +0000
English Video about the Hölö Urea treatment plant South of Stockholm (blackwater treatment and reuse) - by: madeleine http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11121-english-video-about-the-hoeloe-urea-treatment-plant-south-of-stockholm-blackwater-treatment-and-reuse#11121 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11121-english-video-about-the-hoeloe-urea-treatment-plant-south-of-stockholm-blackwater-treatment-and-reuse#11121 Here is a nice video (english) about the Swedish Urea treatment plant in Hölö south of Stockholm.
Some of you might have visited this treatment plant on study visit organized by World Water Week in 2012 . For the rest of you this is a very good and educative video to learn more about how urea treatment technology works in practice. Jan Christer Carlsson a farmer takes care of the treatment plant and receives currently black water from 400 households. After 2 weeks of treatment, the waste is ready use on the fields. The part of the small wastewater plant starts at after 10 minute in the video.
Enjoy watching it :
Cheers
madeleine

madeleine]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Mon, 24 Nov 2014 16:46:14 +0000
Re: Short recap of IWA conference on sustainable wastewater treatment and nutrient recovery in Kathmandu - by: Marijn Zandee http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11080-short-recap-of-iwa-conference-on-sustainable-wastewater-treatment-and-nutrient-recovery-in-kathmandu#11090 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11080-short-recap-of-iwa-conference-on-sustainable-wastewater-treatment-and-nutrient-recovery-in-kathmandu#11090
Separated storm-water sewers with decentralized infiltration are usually discarded because of seemingly much higher costs. However this rarely takes into consideration the larger impacts on the overall water cycle and dropping ground-water tables (and salt-water intrusion in coastal cities).
I think most of the experts agree on this though, it is more of an issue that budget allocation usually goes for the "cheaper" option.


I think this is especially true in a place like Nepal, where 85% of the annual precip falls in a 3.5 month period. If we can locally infiltrate storm water, the waste water treatment solutions (centralized or de-centralized) could be designed so much more efficiently.

Marijn]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Sat, 22 Nov 2014 07:39:09 +0000
Re: Short recap of IWA conference on sustainable wastewater treatment and nutrient recovery in Kathmandu - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11080-short-recap-of-iwa-conference-on-sustainable-wastewater-treatment-and-nutrient-recovery-in-kathmandu#11087 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11080-short-recap-of-iwa-conference-on-sustainable-wastewater-treatment-and-nutrient-recovery-in-kathmandu#11087 Marijn Zandee wrote:

• Grey water separation and decentralized treatment (same for rainwater), is totally feasible. It should be promoted much more “aggressively”.

Separated storm-water sewers with decentralized infiltration are usually discarded because of seemingly much higher costs. However this rarely takes into consideration the larger impacts on the overall water cycle and dropping ground-water tables (and salt-water intrusion in coastal cities).
I think most of the experts agree on this though, it is more of an issue that budget allocation usually goes for the "cheaper" option.

Marijn Zandee wrote:

• The “BAMBi” filter that EAWAG uses in the “blue toilet”, may also find application in greywater treatment systems in many places with space limitations.

This is kind of funny if you know the history behind these gravity driven membrane filters. The system I worked with started out as a creative re-use of UF membranes from waste-water MBRs, was then converted for emergency/low cost drinking water treatment, then EAWAG thought their GDM drinking water treatment system could also be used for treating the wash-water in their toilet... and now it is back at waste-water ]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Fri, 21 Nov 2014 15:25:00 +0000
Short recap of IWA conference on sustainable wastewater treatment and nutrient recovery in Kathmandu - by: Marijn Zandee http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11080-short-recap-of-iwa-conference-on-sustainable-wastewater-treatment-and-nutrient-recovery-in-kathmandu#11080 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/11080-short-recap-of-iwa-conference-on-sustainable-wastewater-treatment-and-nutrient-recovery-in-kathmandu#11080
I recently had the opportunity to participate in the “IWA specialist conference Global challenges: Sustainable wastewater treatment and resource recovery” here in Kathmandu. Which was quite interesting, and I would like to share some messages and impressions.

The thing that surprised me most during the conference is how many research institutes, companies and utilities are working on nutrient and energy recovery in the developed world these days. The subject really seems to have “exploded” in recent years. Considering some of the recent discussions regarding what is and is not “Ecosan” on the forum. Maybe we also have to expand the forum somehow and come up with a new category where people can post information regarding resource recovery from centralized wastewater treatment plants?

Below I will list some other points that I found interesting. Many may not be new, but still good to remember:

• In many developing / middle income countries (and in developed ones too), the way invitations to tender for wastewater treatment systems are written more or less dictate a “classic” WWTP.

• In the developed world, where WWPTs are already common, it seems that many to ideas achieve energy neutrality and resource recovery are based on adding other (organic) wastes to the processes in the plants. While this may make sense for ‘Industrial size” WWTPs it still seems to me that separation is a better way to go in the developing world.

• Grey water separation and decentralized treatment (same for rainwater), is totally feasible. It should be promoted much more “aggressively”.

• The “BAMBi” filter that EAWAG uses in the “blue toilet”, may also find application in greywater treatment systems in many places with space limitations.

• Waste water is almost all water, future developments in places with water scarcity (Australia, parts of the USA), are likely to be driven by water prices (and the desire for drinking water quality effluent), rather than other recovery options.

• One way to prevent failures of lager waste water treatment systems in developing nations is to use a model where the company who installs the system also has to operate it for 15 years or so.

Regards

Marijn]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Fri, 21 Nov 2014 03:35:32 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: Ababu http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#11011 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#11011 Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:07:18 +0000 Re: Wastewater reuse scheme in Braunschweig, Germany - is this an ecosan system? Is it good/sustainable? - by: Bhaskar http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10089-wastewater-reuse-scheme-in-braunschweig-germany-is-this-an-ecosan-system-is-it-goodsustainable?limit=12&start=24#11007 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10089-wastewater-reuse-scheme-in-braunschweig-germany-is-this-an-ecosan-system-is-it-goodsustainable?limit=12&start=24#11007
Would you like to add a simple fish pond to treat sewage.

You can use urine to grow fish, the way you are growing plants.]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Sun, 16 Nov 2014 04:21:19 +0000
Re: Wastewater reuse scheme in Braunschweig, Germany - is this an ecosan system? Is it good/sustainable? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10089-wastewater-reuse-scheme-in-braunschweig-germany-is-this-an-ecosan-system-is-it-goodsustainable?limit=12&start=24#10946 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10089-wastewater-reuse-scheme-in-braunschweig-germany-is-this-an-ecosan-system-is-it-goodsustainable?limit=12&start=24#10946 ]]> Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Wed, 12 Nov 2014 05:41:30 +0000 Re: Wastewater reuse scheme in Braunschweig, Germany - is this an ecosan system? Is it good/sustainable? - by: HAPitot http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10089-wastewater-reuse-scheme-in-braunschweig-germany-is-this-an-ecosan-system-is-it-goodsustainable?limit=12&start=24#10939 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10089-wastewater-reuse-scheme-in-braunschweig-germany-is-this-an-ecosan-system-is-it-goodsustainable?limit=12&start=24#10939
Interesting discussion, indeed! Thanks to all of you, who have contributed! And to Kai in particular - we need fighters and people who live their ideas like you!

You cannot believe how much I have learnt to hate my flush toilet here in Moroto, Uganda. I am getting at most one hour of water per day out of the piped water system - and guess in what state my flush is! How much I wish I could throw out that piece of crap and replace it by an ecosan (I used to use one before, and it was working sooo much better!) But I fear the prosecution by my landlord if I did something like that... And damaged the precious flush! The worst of it all: I am the advisor on water and sanitation here in Moroto - but that's another issue.

But back to Brauschweig: From what I know, it is a pretty large industrial town. Wikipedia is saying the following about the economy of Braunschweig:
Braunschweig was one of the centres of the industrialization in Northern Germany. During the 19th and early 20th century the canning and railroad industries and the sugar production were of great importance for Braunschweig's economy,[42] but eventually other branches such as the automotive industry became more important, while especially the canning industry began to vanish from the city after the end of World War II.[43] The defunct truck and bus manufacturer Büssing was headquartered in Braunschweig. Current factories in the city include Volkswagen, Siemens, Bombardier Transportation, and Bosch.
The fashion label NewYorker, the publishing house Westermann Verlag, Nordzucker, Volkswagen Financial Services and Volkswagen Bank have their headquarters in the city. Also two major optical companies were headquartered in Braunschweig, Voigtländer and Rollei.
During the 1980s and early 1990s the computer companies Atari and Commodore International both had branches for development and production within the city.[44][45]
Braunschweig is the home of two piano companies, both known worldwide for the high quality of their instruments: Schimmel and Grotrian-Steinweg. Both companies were founded in the 19th century. Additionally Sandberg Guitars is based in Braunschweig.

So, it would really be important to know about what they do with effluents from industry, hospitals, etc. in order to even consider the idea of ecosan in connection with such a large sanitation system, however good it may look on paper. How is it regulated, monitored and how are regulations enforced?

Regards, H-A]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:26:56 +0000
Re: Wastewater reuse scheme in Braunschweig, Germany - is this an ecosan system? Is it good/sustainable? - by: Florian http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10089-wastewater-reuse-scheme-in-braunschweig-germany-is-this-an-ecosan-system-is-it-goodsustainable?limit=12&start=24#10923 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-greywater-blackwater-or-wastewater-reuse-irrigation-aquaculture/10089-wastewater-reuse-scheme-in-braunschweig-germany-is-this-an-ecosan-system-is-it-goodsustainable?limit=12&start=24#10923 joeturner wrote:
If centralised systems were replaced with dry decentralised systems, many more people would get sick.
(...)

It is very clear that however inadequate the central systems are at destroying pathogens, they are several magnitudes more effective reliable than any dry system.
(...)

I will agree that centralised systems are arguably not sustainable but they are very clearly much safer than decentalised dry toilets.
(...)

Indeed, the only way that a few people can safely use dry toilets in N America and Europe is because of the centralised sanitation systems which stop the pathogens from ever becoming endemic. This would never have happened if the only toilets available were dry toilets.
(...)

I accept that there are problems with the sustainability of centralised systems but there would clearly be health consequences in moving from the existing systems to everyone using dry toilets.


Repeating it so many times doesn't make it any more true.

A sewer, a wastewater treatment plant, a dry toilet, many dry toilets, all can be very safe or very unsafe, depending on how it is done.

Large scale application of dry toilets in Europe or the US is a bit hypothetical from the current perspective, but I have no doubts that it could be done as safely as current sewer based sanitation.]]>
Greywater, blackwater or wastewater reuse, irrigation, aquaculture Mon, 10 Nov 2014 22:10:25 +0000