SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Tue, 02 Sep 2014 16:47:22 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: Ababu http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9835 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9835
Thank you again for the information especially on detergents and on the need for monitoring the use of chemicals in washing. I also agree with your suggestion and with that of Mohammad as well. The problem may also occur at a later stage due to accumulation although apparently for now the plants seem to grow well.
Best regards
Ababu]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Thu, 21 Aug 2014 08:35:11 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: Ababu http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9833 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9833
Thank you again for your points. I quite agree with you on the need to look at quality of grey water from broader perspectives in context of grey water reuse because the chemical hazards may also affect the growth of plants.

Best regards
Ababu]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Thu, 21 Aug 2014 08:12:42 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: HAPitot http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9832 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9832
thanks for your detailed explanations from my side, too, Ababu. I would agree with Mohammad that risks are also coming from the chemicals used in detergents. I think it is essential that these are biodegradable, otherwise they can accumulate in the soil and affect the growth of the plants. I have heard of cases where plants that have been irrigated with water from washing clothes or dishes (I don't quite remember) have died. But then, many people are totally overusing such products and are using much more than what is required. In any case, we should strive that detergents are completely biodegradable (and not just partially as may be the case for many such products), and then teach users about the appropriate dosage.

In fact detergents have been my biggest worry when I have constructed my grey water garden, but it has turned out to be unfounded looking at how healthy the papaya plants are growing. But then, we attempt to minimize the use of detergents and only buy good brands (even though an investigation about biodegradability would be very helpful).

Kind regards, H-A]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Thu, 21 Aug 2014 08:08:45 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: fppirco http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9830 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9830
Thank you so much for your comprehensive explanation , I am very interested in water recycled and reusing on bio remediation and wetland based but I am laboratory technologist as well as I teach material safety data sheet(MSDS) to university students (B.Sc.M.Sc and (Ph.D)
yes you work on grey water ,but today kitchen washing(Dish washing) and laundry washing manufacturers widely use of Enzyme and other strong chemical in their formulation which I wrote in my last mail are not biodegradable I believe for any waste water treatment in addition pathogen bio hazard ,chemical hazards determination must be lunched because their risk are higher(long term) than bacteria pathogen(short term) which I believe they will removed with considering growth log (limitation of nutrients ,competition with aerobic non pathogen bacteria) in water dam and wetland.
and yes the water dam is being to used for irrigations but we face with ecosystem chain ,Plants ,human being and animal so we must be assured of (integrated) total safety in waste water treatment although I am sure dam process reduces chemical hazard but in how extend?
In conclusion I congratulate you for your innovative design which I am very interested in it because of it wide applicable in water scarce region.
Thank you again for your mail.

with best regards
Mohammad]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Thu, 21 Aug 2014 03:51:50 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: Ababu http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9828 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9828
Thank you for your interest in the grey water dam. Yes quality and characterizing the possible health risk is part of our research concern. We believe the grey water dam set up provides a better barrier against pathogen compared to the vertical grey water tower because the grey water tends to get soaked up in the vertical grey water tower from my experience. We are not including fecal and urine wastes in the dam. We are using grey water. We do not therefore anticipate heavy metals, pesticides, urine products such as endocrine disruptor, hormones, etc as some thing to worry about assuming of course grey water that is being used in the grey water dam comes from the kitchen, baths and washing and some control is exercised although cross contamination is possible. The effect of BOD/TOC is indirect in the sense that bacterial count may increase with availability of organic matter in grey water. However, there are not many documented cases of effects of chemicals on grown plants from grey water application although i do not mean to discount that. How much of these chemicals ends up in the plants is another question because the risk is in eating the plants unlike drinking water and this risk might be low because plants do have barriers. While some control on what should be taken to the dam is necessary and while pretreatment might be considered to improve the water quality going into the grey water dam, we, however, think that our main concern in relation to the grey water dam should be pathogen risk (bacteria, virus, protozoa and helminth) because grey water might contain pathogen although to a lesser degree compared to fecal waste. The grey water dam can be considered as a form of restricted irrigation and the WHO guideline of achieving 3-4 log reduction of E.coli ( 99.9 and 99.99% removal)within the soil in addition to <1 helminh/egg per 100gm of soil with an infection risk of 1 in 1000 might be the appropriate guideline to apply. The most probable risk is in our case direct ingestion of the soil containing pathogens in the course of dealing with harvesting plants and maintenance or contamination of plants by the soil and here proper hygiene also plays a role. There are reports of 2-7 log removal of ecoli by soil depending on how fine the soil is and in this connection we would like to see how the mixture of ash, manure and fine/coarse mixture we used fares in terms of pathogen removal.There is a need to establish the effectiveness of the grey water dam soil as a pathogen barrier.]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Wed, 20 Aug 2014 21:34:06 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: fppirco http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9813 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9813
your design is very interesting but I have sebstain similar questions about its safety do you had any output analysis for example TOC (Total organic Carbon) for washing material use in laundry, bath in both shampoo ,soap, washing powder ,etc) heavy metal ,TOC and BOD , you know there are household material which are not biodegradable and will accumulated in both biological environment (human being ,animal, plants) and even ecosystem and environment such TOC ,Heave metal ,pesticides and addition medicine residual is execrate from Urine or fecal.

your design very interesting and easy practical for rural area.

Regards
Mohammad Mojtabae]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Wed, 20 Aug 2014 06:13:04 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: HAPitot http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9805 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9805 H-A]]> Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:42:03 +0000 Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: Ababu http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9803 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9803 No the planted filter is supposedly a horizontal flow filter. We control the outlet pipe to regularly lift the water level and lower it to allow alternately water and air into the root zone. I also suspect the root zone might be anaerobic but the plants do grow still as u said. The soil has some manure in it. We are thinking of chlorination for other household uses such as laundry, cleaning, etc. where there is a health risk tat should not be ignored just because it may not be as high as toilet water and not for plantation. From the way it appears, the effluent water after chlorination may achieve a potable quality in terms of aesthetic acceptability and pathogens risk.
Ababu]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:29:39 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: HAPitot http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9800 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9800
And do you need to use chlorine on treated grey water - it shouldn't be necessary. But I understand you concern about odors.

H-A]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Tue, 19 Aug 2014 18:06:27 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: Ababu http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9798 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9798 Concerning the quality coming out of the planted filter, i take your suggestion on board as one possibility. We would carry out quality analysis along the treatment line inclding the nutrient inputs and outputs.However, grey water BOD is also high, contains a significant organics especially the ones from the kitchen. I am wondering if it would not be possible to produce soil compost from grey water rather than try to grow plant on it directly. However, we still have a significant problem in the planted filter. In the first drum we put floating plastic media (for ease of cleaning) as anaerobic growth medium but packed during treatment. The second drum is sand on grave support. The effluent from the two drums flows through the panted filter that contains gravel at the bottom followed by sand and soil at the top. The effluent after all these in the end is very clear but quite odourous and not acceptable for some types of reuse. We were thinking of adding charcoal and sand as an additional treatment to reduce the odour. We also have put a number of vertical pipes down the level of the gravel bottom in the planted filter for aeration and release of gases but the growth of plants is still limited. The entire scheme ( the drum filters plus the planted filter) is anaerobic. Part of the problem in growth of plants could be lack of mineralization of nutrients. It is a little difficult to adapt aerobic treatment of waste water at household level with limited space. Some of the prescriptions of grey water treatment in the literature may not be as good as they appear to be assuming of course we were not wrong in copying them. For other types of reuse how much chlorine demand the effluent has is some thing we want to investigate.]]> Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:15:43 +0000 Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: HAPitot http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9797 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9797
An interesting observation. I'd rather think it's because of microbial growth rather than organics coming in with the grey water. But there would certainly be nutrients coming in with the water. One thing I noticed is that some of the locally manufactured detergents are still containing phosphates here in Uganda - it's written on the list of ingredients of some of the washing powders. That would usually not be the case in developed countries. But nutrients, water and air would spur the growth of micro-organisms.

Greetings, H-A]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Tue, 19 Aug 2014 14:44:10 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: Ababu http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9743 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9743
Thanks again for your information which added to my perspective of grey water reuse. The growth is visible. One thing I have observed is grey water can turn an infertile soil into a fertile compost. This is especially visible from the other pilot plant we built. This is a multi-step filter followed by horizontal flow planted filter for grey water disposal. The soil following grey water flow through it is now rich in organics. I have attached the photo of the plant.]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Thu, 14 Aug 2014 19:15:59 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: HAPitot http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9726 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9726
thanks again for you interest! It would be great if you could further investigate my idea! And keep us posted about how your research is going!

In the meantime, I made some new photos of my 'waste water garden' - please see below! The papaya trees have grown a lot since the last photos were taken, and they are flowering. And now, you can see the waste water pipe coming into the depression in the middle. You can also see a young tomato plant growing in that basin - it has certainly come as a seed with the water.

Kind regards, and success with your research!

H-A]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Wed, 13 Aug 2014 14:41:31 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: Ababu http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9708 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9708
Thanks for the clarification and i can see that. Now it is clear and I seem to understand it. The maintenance is simple (manageable). Usually dirt accumulates on surface in finer media such as soil and can be handled from the surface. In the grey water dam we made also sure that we do not put too much impermeable material that impedes flow of water and the manure mixture helps although we used mild compaction to stabilize the soil and discourage soil piping problem. The reuse of grey water by segregation is interesting idea. Your approach is some thing worth trying in our project.

Best regards
Ababu.]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Mon, 11 Aug 2014 18:59:19 +0000
Re: A grey water dam for the treatment and reuse of grey water for single and multiple households - by: HAPitot http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9707 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irrigation-greywater-or-wastewater-reuse/9673-a-grey-water-dam-for-the-treatment-and-reuse-of-grey-water-for-single-and-multiple-households?limit=12&start=12#9707
Thanks for your interest. The water from the kitchen sink is directed via a 1.5 inch PVC pipe into the depression you see in the 2nd photo. It comes out where you see the small stones in the circle. Dirt is carried all the way to that point (if it has not already been captured in the siphon in the kitchen). So, if too much silt has accumulated, you need to scoop it out and remodel the circular depression around the tree - a work of 10 minutes.

Concerning clogging or water logging - I have never experienced it. But as I was saying, I made sure to excavate a planting hole which is a bit deep (at least 0.6 m), and to refill it with some of the excavated stones at the bottom (the soil here is very stony) and a mix of the soil and compost above. The soil here is a claiy, sandy loam.

But the idea would be to have a separate disposal area for each point source of gray water - so my shower room could feed into a separate area that could be planted with bananas, for example. I am saying 'could' because it's already connected to the septic tank. So, it's a decentralized disposal that would favor a lot of fruit trees and possibly other crops (green peppers?) that are planted around the circular depressions in the middle.

Hope that answers your questions. And may-be, there are others who have experience with such irrigation areas and could report about their experiences?

Kind regards, H-A]]>
Irrigation, greywater or wastewater reuse Mon, 11 Aug 2014 18:25:55 +0000