SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Thu, 24 Jul 2014 12:19:38 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Fwd: Recent posts from the SuSanA Forum - by: CWendland http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/9382-mosquito-problem-in-waste-stabilization-pond-system#9388 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/9382-mosquito-problem-in-waste-stabilization-pond-system#9388 Please see here the manual by Duncan Mara who gives main criteria to avoid mosquito breeding:
depth more than 0.9 m and proper O&M such as regular grass cutting
see details here:
www.ircwash.org/sites/default/files/341.1-87WA-2422.pdf

Best regards
Claudia]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Fri, 18 Jul 2014 09:24:00 +0000
Re: Mosquito problem in Waste Stabilization Pond system - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/9382-mosquito-problem-in-waste-stabilization-pond-system#9385 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/9382-mosquito-problem-in-waste-stabilization-pond-system#9385 Some water plants are known to form pockets of water in their leaves though, that can fill with rain and thus have good conditions for anopheles larvae.

The more quiet muddy waters between the free floating water hyacint for example, can be pretty good habitats for other mosquito species, and it is probably difficult to convince people nearby that these don't cause much issues beyond annoyance (similar to the situation of communities near protection worthy wetlands).]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 17 Jul 2014 19:41:19 +0000
Re: Mosquito problem in Waste Stabilization Pond system - by: Florian http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/9382-mosquito-problem-in-waste-stabilization-pond-system#9384 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/9382-mosquito-problem-in-waste-stabilization-pond-system#9384 pprasetya wrote:
mosquito breeding when vegetation starts growing in the pond


As far as I know, it is exactly like this: to avoid mosquito breeding, the ponds have to be kept free from vegetation. This is best achieved by maintaining a minimum depth of the ponds that discourages plant growth from the bottom and regular maintenance for keeping the pond shore free of vegetation. Floating mataterial and scum should also be removed frequently. The main risk is therefore from lack of good maintenance. WSPs are a well established technology, you should find plenty of literature on this issue with a little research.

I am not sure if your facultiative WSP are meant to be used as component for treating toilet sludge and organic waste. If it is so, you should be careful: liquids from sludge treatment have often a very high ammonia content, which may be toxic to algae in facultative ponds and these ponds thus may not work properly...

Best regards, Florian]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 17 Jul 2014 18:22:21 +0000
Mosquito problem in Waste Stabilization Pond system - by: pprasetya http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/9382-mosquito-problem-in-waste-stabilization-pond-system#9382 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/9382-mosquito-problem-in-waste-stabilization-pond-system#9382
My name is Priska, currently a second-year Master student on MSc Urban Environmental Management at Wageningen University. I am currently doing an internship at Safi Sana (www.safisana.org/projects/), a company that collects toilet and organic waste to produce biogas and organic fertilizer. Their current project is based in Ghana (see here on the forum: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/35-bio...ganic-waste-as-input).

I am responsible to assist in the development of their Wastewater Treatment Plant design for their new anaerobic digestion site in Ghana. The proposed plan is to use Waste Stabilization Pond, mainly Facultative pond, as one of the wastewater treatment systems.

However, I hear that the common problem with this system is that it attracts mosquito breeding when vegetation starts growing in the pond, which is a problem considering that Ghana is known to have big issue with Malaria. Nevertheless, there are some people who say mosquito is not a problem, and some people say mosquito is definitely a problem with this system.

For this reason, I am writing this post to ask if anyone is familiar with the issue of mosquito breeding within a waste stabilization pond system, particularly in Ghana. Any recommendations/solutions would also be very much appreciated!

Thank you very much in advance. I look forward to your responds.

Best regards, Priska]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 17 Jul 2014 18:09:59 +0000
Re: Sense or Nonsense ? Fossil Carbon energy wasted just to destroy more Carbon energy at "advanced" WWTP's? - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/7438-sense-or-nonsense--fossil-carbon-energy-wasted-just-to-destroy-more-carbon-energy-at-qadvancedq-wwtps#9162 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/7438-sense-or-nonsense--fossil-carbon-energy-wasted-just-to-destroy-more-carbon-energy-at-qadvancedq-wwtps#9162 Domestic Wastewater Treatment as a Net Energy Producer–Can This be Achieved?

2011 pubs.acs.org/doi/full/10.1021/es2014264
Abstract
In seeking greater sustainability in water resources management, wastewater is now being considered more as a resource than as a waste—a resource for water, for plant nutrients, and for energy. Energy, the primary focus of this article, can be obtained from wastewater's organic as well as from its thermal content. Also, using wastewater’s nitrogen and P nutrients for plant fertilization, rather than wasting them, helps offset the high energy cost of producing synthetic fertilizers. Microbial fuel cells offer potential for direct biological conversion of wastewater’s organic materials into electricity, although significant improvements are needed for this process to be competitive with anaerobic biological conversion of wastewater organics into biogas, a renewable fuel used in electricity generation. Newer membrane processes coupled with complete anaerobic treatment of wastewater offer the potential for wastewater treatment to become a net generator of energy, rather than the large energy consumer that it is today.

see Table 1. Energy Characteristics of a Typical Domestic Wastewater

and
June 2014 energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/06/f16/...rt%20June%202014.pdf
In an effort to bring more integrated research across its programs, the DOE’s Water-Energy Tech Team issued a new report this month,
The Water-Energy Nexus: Challenges and Opportunities.
One set of promising possibilities involves the replacement of aerobic treatments, which consume 50 percent to 65 percent of the electricity in traditional treatment streams, with anaerobic alternatives (McCarty et al. 2011). Another entails pretreatment techniques that enhance the production of biogas from anaerobic digesters, reduce the volume of sludge requiring disposal, and enhance the resilience of such facilities to power outages (Neyens and Baeyens 2003). A third group of opportunities offers significant energy savings in the removal of nitrogen, a growing area of energy consumption, driven by expectations of expanded regulatory requirements (Joss et al. 2011).

slowly but surly...

Regards,
Detlef]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Mon, 30 Jun 2014 18:57:06 +0000
Re: Sustainable water-sanitation developments in the Netherlands ("green" decentralized biogas-works+CHPs) - by: guilherme http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/6790-sustainable-water-sanitation-developments-in-the-netherlands-qgreenq-decentralized-biogas-workschps#9154 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/6790-sustainable-water-sanitation-developments-in-the-netherlands-qgreenq-decentralized-biogas-workschps#9154
I've missed this post late last year and found it now that I'm researching a bit on the topic of decentralised WWTP and nutrient recovery. I'm delighted to read on nutrient recovery and energy production being applied to systems across the Netherlands. I'm a member of a Brazilian NGO that has been working on this field for over 20 years, and that has been depicted at this short video also produced by Ellen MacArthur Foundation:

Katja Hansen and the Biological Nutrient Metabolism


I highly recommend it to everyone interested in Cradle to Cradle, EcoSan, and the "Energie Fabrik" concept.

Despite being a completely different climate, where we see greater advantage on the production of biomass (i.e. aquatic plants) through the use of nutrients already present on wastewater, rather than producing fertilisers in chemical and highly energy-intensive processes, it's still worth a view as it presents sanitation and biological cycle side-by-side, within a C2C perspective.

Now, I'm researching on the issue of centralised vs. decentralised WWTP's. I am from Sao Paulo (Brazil), a large metropolis with nearly 18 million inhabitants and only 5 WWTP's. The largest of them treats 4.5 Mi p.e., and a large share of the city does have collection, but all of it is disposed in local creeks that ultimately lead to Tiete, the city's largest river. It seems obvious to me that being a densely populated city, where space and financial resources are limited, that the city should instead decentralise treatment to small regions, whether neighborhoods or microbasins. So are there any major cities that count with dozens (if not hundreds) of WWTP's across its area, and still have one company or agency overlooking its operation?

Best regards from Sao Paulo, Brazil,]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Sun, 29 Jun 2014 20:43:28 +0000
Re: TESLA open-sources all its patents! - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#9044 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#9044
Thanks a lot. May you invite Prof. Orszagh and colleagues to support you in answering to some of my questions.
All the Best
Detlef]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Mon, 23 Jun 2014 23:15:33 +0000
Re: TESLA open-sources all its patents! - by: bajanos http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#9042 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#9042 Thanks a lot for your kind response. I am glad that at least someone here puts the effort and has a look into the website recommended. I would like to emphasize that I am not an expert never studied sanitation, water management, whatsoever. I have only one concern: I want my children grow up in a healthier environment and with the possibility of being able to have freshwater. What are we doing now. We flush our toilets with freshwater, potable water and then try to purify it using mostly fossile energy. I think this practice is insane and a suicide on a long-term basis.
Unfortunately, I do not speak German (and a dozen more languages which I would love to, neither ) therefore cannot understand what Prof. Ripl talks about in the videos. If they will be subtitled some time, please let me know.
I really appreciate what people do here because they try to give a solution to their best. The problem is we are all trained and conditioned so that the solution can only be another complicated technical device that consumes a lot of energy and maintains the current system. This has to be stopped in my opinion. Let me quote Bill Mollison who said that: “Though the problems of the world are increasingly complex,
the solutions remain embarrassingly simple.”
You have a lot of questions which I try and answer but cannot promise anything as far as time is concerned. But do not expect much of me because I am not an expert as I indicated earlier. I believe Prof. Orszagh's method works. I have 3 kids and we do not flush our toilet because we use a compost toilet which basically means that we have a bucket and use that with sawdust. You can calculate how much freshwater we save in a year's time, the 5 of us. OK, we have a garden where it can be composted but not sure how it could work in a big city.
Anyway, I will try to answer your other questions soon. Or I would be happy to exchange e-mails on the topic as well.
Thanks a lot.
János]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Mon, 23 Jun 2014 21:52:14 +0000
Re: TESLA open-sources all its patents! - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#8974 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#8974
Thanks very much for your hint.
I fond your web page wealthy and comprehensive and your harshly critics refreshing, as only controversial points made will start discussions and maybe thinking out of the current "boxes", even if new thinking is painful to forum-moderators. I do not think a searching for a minimum consensus will bring colleagues within this susana-forum and sustainable sanitation in general any further. E.g. pleasing each other through "Likes received: 0 Karma: 0" I found useless.

Controversial discussion are very helpful, therefore keep up "stirring up shit" .

Unfortunately you are splitting too this "one sanitation world" in DC's and Ind.C's as susana.org and others are doing wrongly too. We have all over the world the same "laws of nature" and capitalistic economic system (modern term: "globalization"), we are just different by climatic conditions, access to resources and cultural habits we are living in. Therefore I try to split in " warm" and "cold" countries only avoiding "-isms" and often observed possible hidden racial arrogance's.

Do you understand German? See 3 video speeches by Prof. Ripl in German language:
..."Ohne dezentrale Abwasserwirtschaft keine Nachhaltigkeit"

...Warum haben Grosskraftwerke keine Zukunft ?

... übt Kritik am Co2-Klimamodell

Kurzvortrag Prof. Ripl 27.02.2009


May you share your views with me (us) about TOPIC: Sense or Nonsense ? Fossil Carbon energy wasted just to destroy more Carbon energy at "advanced" WWTP's?
and
TOPIC: Putting our discussions about "sustainable sanitation" in a perspective!?

As you can see in my limited forum contributions (just trying to think out of the box ) I am favoring very much AD as first step of mass domestic black water treatment, instead of AS (activated sludge). The "warm" areas of this world have advantages in this regard.

As we are not living in an ideal world, how you would deal/advice on in the meantime and possible more sustainable future on all this existing large scale waste-water collection systems and wwtp's in climatic areas of excess water and strong culture habit of water based sanitation? Would a use of contained carbon energy via AD and a re-use of N from effluent harmful to valuable and shrinking humus too? Or in other words, how could a smaller amount of mineralized sludge coming from a pre-treatment like AD more harmful to humus, them large amounts of mineralized excess sludge coming from AS?

See work of Mr. Holzapfel on dry toilets and grey-water similar to yours and a much more simplified grey-water treatment by him:

very cheap in construction and only aerobic with out any pre-treatment settling.


Looking forward to your reply

Detlef]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Sun, 15 Jun 2014 10:51:26 +0000
Re: TESLA open-sources all its patents! - by: bajanos http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#8973 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#8973 Here you go:
eautarcie.org/
Open-source and free to anyone...and simple.
Janos]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Sun, 15 Jun 2014 06:13:24 +0000
TESLA open-sources all its patents! - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#8971 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8971-tesla-open-sources-all-its-patents#8971 open-sources all its patents, in the spirit of the open source movement, for the advancement of electric vehicle technology.

www.teslamotors.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you

Do anybody know about similar positive developments within the water sector for the advancement of sustainable sanitation?]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Fri, 13 Jun 2014 21:08:56 +0000
Re: Putting our discussions about "sustainable sanitation" in a perspective!? - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8894-putting-our-discussions-about-qsustainable-sanitationq-in-a-perspective#8949 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8894-putting-our-discussions-about-qsustainable-sanitationq-in-a-perspective#8949
"Growth - the real elephant in the room?"
'EXCLUSIVE Is the pursuit of continuous growth the single biggest issue for our businesses and our economies? Will the circular economy provide the silver bullet, or do we need to go further? Michael Townsend investigates. '

www.edie.net/library/view_article.asp?id=6461

a good "contribution" to this topic]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 12 Jun 2014 16:21:27 +0000
Re: Putting our discussions about "sustainable sanitation" in a perspective!? - by: ggalli http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8894-putting-our-discussions-about-qsustainable-sanitationq-in-a-perspective#8916 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8894-putting-our-discussions-about-qsustainable-sanitationq-in-a-perspective#8916
I fully agree with your points. It is also what I'm struggling with in my thinking on urban sanitation: How do we move beyond linear approaches (A will lead to and embrace a complexity approach which is more messy and gives far more confidence in those actually doing the job? And how do we convince donors to fund something like this?

Krischan, your contribution reminds me a bit of the work of David Snowden. His idea is that different situations need different type of managing.
He makes this point really well by describing how to organise a children's party:
Or this more serious one on what his framework entails:

Best,]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Tue, 10 Jun 2014 10:16:24 +0000
Re: Putting our discussions about "sustainable sanitation" in a perspective!? - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8894-putting-our-discussions-about-qsustainable-sanitationq-in-a-perspective#8914 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8894-putting-our-discussions-about-qsustainable-sanitationq-in-a-perspective#8914
One thing (a bit off topic) that your emphasis of the word "toolkit" reminded me again of a thought I wanted to voice out for a while now:

While all these Decision Support Tools and conceptual frameworks are nice to create and seem like a very tangible outcome for people to use, most of them might be counter productive...

The point I am trying to raise is that there are basically three kinds of work:

1. Work that can be automated or at least broken down to repeatable steps in a "Fordian" way (classic example: car production or fast food)

2. Work that can be codified into procedures, like administrative/bureaucratic process flows but also certain engineering works that strictly follow building codes etc.

3. "Artisan" or social work, which depends on a lot of informal experience and called micro-management / hands-on interaction.

Modern organisational optimisation focusses mainly on the first two (and has brought it to a quite astonishing perfection in some cases), while utterly failing at the last. There is also a constant struggle to try to "bend" work of the 3rd category into on one of the other two ("if you only have a hammer, all problems start looking like nails"), leading to what is called "worker's alienation" and usually dismal results.

However, as much of the road-blocks in sanitation seem to fall in the 3rd category of work ("sanitation service chain" etc.) and circumstances in developing countries generally favour 3rd category work as everything is pretty much informal, it seems to me that most of these toolkits try to codify something that is basically not possible to codify.
Thus what they do is create very simplified and broad generalisations that at best are simply not possible to follow or worse might actually divert attention away from the really important work (especially non-experienced implementers and higher level administrators). Following them closely would also result in what is commonly referred to as "Italian strike", i.e. ceasing to do any real work by following instructions by the letter of the word.

It is also a telling sign that they are usually not created by actual practitioners (who mostly realise the futility of them) but rather by bureaucrats (or consultant hired by them) or academics. Although for the latter I see some point, as they might be a suitable tool to teach some basics before learning the actual real thing by doing it.

Ah well, another very broad picture discussion ]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Tue, 10 Jun 2014 09:38:23 +0000
Putting our discussions about "sustainable sanitation" in a perspective!? - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8894-putting-our-discussions-about-qsustainable-sanitationq-in-a-perspective#8894 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/8894-putting-our-discussions-about-qsustainable-sanitationq-in-a-perspective#8894
I found discussions at this forum much to much related to technical stuff and loosing often the perspective to real live around the world (me too, as I like many made contributions/discussions by others) or talking about strange "screwdrivers" things like e.g. "toolkit on Violence, Gender and WASH". Should we deal with human beings by using tools like for machines? Humans are hardware or software at one time ? In an inhuman machine-world maybe yes.

I am not sure how to motivate you and others to take part in an open online discussion, about what we try doing positive for a sustainable world through this forum for US and OTHERS. Or contributing we here only Things, Thoughts, Know-how, Open design and so on just for our selfish egos?

Maybe I should do a fancy video message to motivate you for a larger discussion at this level? I regret, am not able to do it proper enough to your taste.

Therefore let me try to "use" Harald WELZER's lecturing to motivate you, better them I could ever do it by many text. His video lecture about the book content "Climate Wars: What People Will Be Killed For in the 21st Century" takes 1h & 45 min.
Maybe you could bear it for this very long time, try it.



Struggles over drinking water, new outbreaks of mass violence, ethnic cleansing, civil wars in the earth’s poorest countries, endless flows of refugees: these are the new conflicts and forces shaping the world of the 21st century. They no longer hinge on ideological rivalries between great powers but rather on issues of class, religion and resources. The genocides of the last century have taught us how quickly social problems can spill over into radical and deadly solutions. Rich countries are already developing strategies to garner resources and keep ‘climate refugees’ at bay.

In this major new book Harald Welzer shows how climate change and violence go hand in hand. Climate change has far-reaching consequences for the living conditions of peoples around the world: inhabitable spaces shrink, scarce resources become scarcer, injustices grow deeper, not only between North and South but also between generations, storing up material for new social tensions and giving rise to violent conflicts, civil wars and massive refugee flows. Climate change poses major new challenges in terms of security, responsibility and justice, but as Welzer makes disturbingly clear, very little is being done to confront them.


Regards,
Detlef]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Fri, 06 Jun 2014 21:30:55 +0000