SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Sun, 21 Sep 2014 02:02:40 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? - by: ben http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10237 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10237
Thanks for this very nice topic, bringing us far from the manichean views good ecosan Vs bad sewerwebs.

If I can add some rather personal spiritual view of Ecosan (I like joe's self definitionas "shit philosopher"). For me Ecosan means that we find a system that is giving us the feeling that we are part of an ecosystem.

I don't know if other parents felt the same but from my personal experience giving birth (rather witnessing it) was a huge shift from "we, human, are a so superior specie" to "we are just a smarter kind of apes". And many people asked me "What ?! You plan to re-use human shit" and I love to see their reaction when I answer them "because you think your shit is different from other mammals, that somehow it can't be treated and re-use the same way by nature ?". Obviously it can't because different mammals' feces affect the other species diferently, but I hope you got my point. When you defecate in a dry toilets and when you witness the safe re-use of it, there's a big mental shift operated on the place we consider ourself in our environment : Ecosan is not only about technic but I believe as well about a sensation and a perception of ourselves, human, in this planet.

I'm talking about because, through my company Ecosec, this is one of our raising awerness line : Dry toilet makes users actors, it changes citizens from poluteur to environmental activist, this is why it is a much more powerfull message than a flyer or a documentary on water scarcity.

Hope one day this line could be added to the ecosan definition.

Whishing you all a good day,

Ben]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Fri, 19 Sep 2014 09:41:46 +0000
Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10230 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10230 Kris: OK, then it's clear. Hopefully one day the comform level of toilets will no longer be judged only based on how much water they use (the more water, the more "comfortable" and therefore the better) but in terms of overall functionality – and if they are fit for purpose (and lack of smell; that's still key).

Kai: If we try to take the bike lane analogy further (I am still not sure if the analogy works) then there must have been lots of lobbying in the background for the bike lanes in cities in the USA before these bike lanes did appear (and lobbying to keep them in place, see current controversy about scrapping of some bike lanes in Toronto!). Netherlands was the "easy", exceptional case as it's so flat there that it's so easy to cycle...(or perhaps they also had exceptional municipal planners with great foresight?!).

However, maybe one difference is that the benefits of cycling are easier to communicate and hence it's easier to lobby for it than the benefits of a dry excreta management system. E.g. There is no shame attached with talking about cycling compared to the shame when talking about toilets and excreta.

In any case, political will (and pressuring from lobby groups) is crucial in both cases to make a change in established infrastructure setups.

But I think there are signs that things are moving in the right direction:

Take the example of composting: once the operators of commercial composting plants are willing/able to also process faecal matter (alongside the garden waste and kitchen waste that is already being processed), then this will open up another piece of missing infrastructure for dry toilets.
(see on the forum here: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-com...-sludgemobile-toilet and forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mob...12&start=12#9977). In the case of mobile toilets at festivals there seems to be a trend (unless it is just my skewed perception from reading too much on this forum?) to move away from chemical toilets to composting toilets. And that’s in developed countries. So this could be a good start.

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Fri, 19 Sep 2014 07:31:57 +0000
Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10227 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10227
]https://www.portlandoregon.gov/transportation/article/370893]

Of course the most obvious example is the Netherlands:



But not to be overlooked are the outstanding results of ciclovias in Latin America (and now elsewhere too) like the one that takes place weekly in the city of Guadalajara in Jalisco, Mexico:



[Disclaimer: I have direct ties to the production of this particular film.]

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Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:48:53 +0000
Re: Is there too much focus on ecosan in the SuSanA discussion forum? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10226 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10226
So am I still confused?

Perhaps it would be easier to describe various systems to you and to then have you (and by extension SIANI) weigh in on which sanitation 'camp' you would place them in. Therefore, if you had to pick just one term - choosing between "ecological sanitation" or "sustainable sanitation" or "both" or "neither" - to describe the following systems which one would it be?

1. Decentralized system in a rural, peri-urban or urban area without access to typical Western system comprised of either decentralized and pressurized or centralized and pressurized water delivery, sewers and/or septic tanks but instead relying on rainwater harvesting and storage, onsite greywater systems, a mix of waterless UDDT's and conventional composting toilets, backyard processing and/or curbside (door-to-door) pickup of urine and desiccated feces, backyard and/or centralized processing center (for ageing urine and composting feces) and application of these materials onto farmland where crops are grown for the consumption of livestock and/or humans.

2. Braunchsweig.

3. Typical western municipal installation of centralized and pressurized water delivery, flush toilets, sewers, activated sludge wastewater treatment plants, collected sludge applied to farmland, effluent directed into nearby river or lake.

4. The same as #3 above except sludge is landfilled.

5. The same as #3 above except sludge processed in a bioreactor/anaerobic digestor to produce electricity, byproduct then applied to agricultural land.

6. The same as #3 above except all or some of the effluent is piped onto a tree farm and the sludge is incinerated (and the resulting fly ash is landfilled or used in the production of cement).

7. The same as #5 above except byproduct is landfilled.

8. System of centralized and pressurized water delivery, flush toilets, and sewers where sewers lead to a so-called "living machine" that uses various various flora and fauna to process wastewater into high quality treated water which is then released into a nearby body of water. The excess biomass generated is either composted and then applied to open land or utilized as a feedstock for an anaerobic digestor (the byproduct then being either applied to land or landfilled depending on its toxicity).

I hope its OK that I may have to follow up your response with a "why"; to ask you "why" you selected one term over the others. Maybe you can include your "why" if you think it might be controversial and/or unclear?

Thanks! ]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 18 Sep 2014 23:31:28 +0000
Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10220 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10220 muench wrote:

Kris: I didn't fully understand your statement:
Thus at least as far as my line of work is concerned, only a as convenient to use design stands a chance in the longer run.


Would you say a UDDT is convenient enough to use or would you say that only flush toilets are convenient enough to use to "stand a chance in the longer run"? Isn't the eThekwini case living proof that a large scale UDDT system can work? Or would you say only in South Africa, not in Uganda, because the municiaplity is in better shape in Durban than elsewhere?


It was a pretty much off-topic remark, that we need to avoid a situation where UDDTs are seen as a step below flush-toilets on the so called sanitation ladder as otherwise they will be replaced sooner or later.]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 18 Sep 2014 12:41:22 +0000
Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10215 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10215


It is 6 minutes long and I very much enjoyed watching it. It is not your usual "my project is great" video but shows the people behind the data collection for the VUNA project which is making use of the UDDTs (and which is trying to further encourage their use by researching urine reuse options). More on the VUNA project is here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/98-res...and-and-south-africa

The images shows quite well what is going on there, with a focus on urine collection and reuse (so far in this thread we have only spoken about the faecal matter and not the urine).

I liked the statement that Kai made above:

Chris Buckley - How wonderful to hear that the eThekwini municipality is moving to free pickup! This is exciting to me because not only does it further validate UD technology but it also normalizes and institutionalizes the surrounding practices. Household recycling rates (of consumables) shot up when my own city went to free curbside pickup so I can only assume that the same will happen in your case when it comes to human excreta. I see this as not unlike bicycle infrastructure; build it and people on bicycles magically appear (even where there may have been none visible before)

Interesting comparison between municipal pickup of faecal matter and provision of bike lanes. I wonder if this is true, very interesting thought.

Kris: I didn't fully understand your statement:
Thus at least as far as my line of work is concerned, only a as convenient to use design stands a chance in the longer run.


Would you say a UDDT is convenient enough to use or would you say that only flush toilets are convenient enough to use to "stand a chance in the longer run"? Isn't the eThekwini case living proof that a large scale UDDT system can work? Or would you say only in South Africa, not in Uganda, because the municiaplity is in better shape in Durban than elsewhere?

Joe mentioned somewhere above that the eThekwini example is not an ecosan example. I fully agree. And it is the perfect proof that a UDDT system can be sustainble sanitation without being ecosan (because no focus on reuse in this case). By the way, I purposefully call it UDDT system because we are talking here about more than just the toilet alone, it is also about the emptying, handling and removal + disposal.

The recommendation to the users so far (before the free pickup of the municipalty has been institutionalised) was to bury the dried faecal matter in their yard, probably under about 30 cm of soil (if I remember correctly). People were not advised to plants anything in that area, but in any case, the faecal matter is being returned to the soil where it adds organic matter if nothing else. So it's not reuse but it is in essence "closing the loop", isn't it?

And I actually think (correct me if I am wrong, Chris), that the toilet users don't use the urine and faecal matter in gardening activities to date not because the municipality has told them not to do it. But rather because they don't do any gardening at all and thus are not using any fertiliser. They simply don't have an interest in the fertiliser. If they had a need for fertiliser, they would probably use the urine and faecal matter, no matter what (just like those farmers in Pakistan uring raw wastewater and not treated wastewater to irrigate and fertiliser their crops with all the associated health risks for the farmers and consumers, see here in the post by Kevin:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irr...d-fecal-sludge#10114 )

So perhaps it's actually a good thing (blessing in disguise?) that the eThekwini peri-urban residents are not into backyard gardening because it simplifies things - fewer health risks which have to be worried about and appropriately managed if the municipality deals with the dried faecal matter and not the users themselves?

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 18 Sep 2014 07:30:23 +0000
Re: Is there too much focus on ecosan in the SuSanA discussion forum? - by: madeleine http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10214 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10214 I cannot do it better right now:instagram.com/p/tBhfHIsWl2/]]> Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:26:59 +0000 Re: Is there too much focus on ecosan in the SuSanA discussion forum? - by: madeleine http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10213 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10213 I do not agree with your interpretation of ecological sanitation, within the definition it is clearly stated that we are referring to safe use and minimize impact on non renewable resources. there are still sustainability challenges linked to these system to make them sustainable and those are more linked to social / acceptance aspects and the logistics arround the reuse.
I am also happy to share with you todays tweet from Sidas deputy director visit in Bolivia where there a huge national ecological sanitation program is implemented

Kind regards
madeleine

Ecological Sanitation

Ecological sanitation systems safely recycle excreta resources (plant nutrients and organic matter) to crop production in such a way that the use of non-renewable resources is minimised.



The statement ‘safely recycle’ includes hygienic, microbial and chemical aspects. Thus, the recycled human excreta product, in solid or liquid form, shall be of high quality both concerning pathogens and all kind of hazardous chemical components. The statement ‘use of non-renewable resources is minimised’ means that the gain in resources by recycling shall be larger than the cost of resources by recycling.



The definition of ecological sanitation is focusing on the health, environment and resource aspect of sustainable sanitation. Thus ecological sanitation is not, per se, sustainable sanitation, but ecological sanitation systems can be implemented in a sustainable way and have a strong potential for sustainable sanitation, if technical, institutional, social and economical aspects are cared for appropriately.]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Thu, 18 Sep 2014 00:22:23 +0000
Re: Is there too much focus on ecosan in the SuSanA discussion forum? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10212 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10212
As was pointed out in an associated thread, while all sustainable sanitation technologies meet the 'ecological sanitation' definition, not all ecological sanitation technologies meet the 'sustainable sanitation' definition. Systems that produce sludge/biosolids are a good example of this. While they apparently can be called "ecological" they cannot be called "sustainable".

So, in light of this, I'm now using the phrase "sustainable sanitation" to describe the lasting sanitation solutions that I'm advocating for.


** The Collins British English dictionary defines "ecological" as: "...tending to benefit or cause minimal damage to the environment".


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* Note by moderator: See here for the other thread on the definition of ecosan: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any...n-is-there-a-problem
As well as here on the wastewater reuse scheme in Braunschweig, Germany:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irr...s-it-goodsustainable]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Wed, 17 Sep 2014 18:44:58 +0000
Re: Is there too much focus on ecosan in the SuSanA discussion forum? - by: DavidAlan http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10205 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10205 Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Wed, 17 Sep 2014 06:48:27 +0000 Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10184 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10184 Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:30:06 +0000 Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? Too much ecosan in SuSanA? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10183 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10183 [Start of Page 4 of the discussion]

Chris Buckley - How wonderful to hear that the eThekwini municipality is moving to free pickup! This is exciting to me because not only does it further validate UD technology but it also normalizes and institutionalizes the surrounding practices. Household recycling rates (of consumables) shot up when my own city went to free curbside pickup so I can only assume that the same will happen in your case when it comes to human excreta. I see this as not unlike bicycle infrastructure; build it and people on bicycles magically appear (even where there may have been none visible before). I wish you all the best in rolling this out and I can't wait to observe the results, particularly if you are ultimately able to secure a safe reuse scheme for the byproducts - that's the real prize! ]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:17:17 +0000
Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10182 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10182

But while I can appreciate your notion of using rainwater to transport human waste I can't help but wonder if even this is somewhat misguided. After all I used to think the same thing - that those countries/regions/states that we generally think of as having plenty of water actually do - until I began looking deeper. For instance, I was shocked to discover that my own region of the world (the northeastern United States), a place I'd assumed is blessed with ample water - given the prevalence of precipitation and surface bodies of water - is actually experiencing water scarcity. Of course, here the rates of deliberate rainwater capture (rainwater harvesting and storage) are very low so there's a lot of room for expanding its use, but given our inability to manage the groundwater and surface bodies of water already available to us I worry that we'd ultimately exhaust rainwater too (were we to allocate it to sewers for the purposes of transporting human excreta).

And while I knew well that in contrast to per capita water usage in other industrialized countries (like Germany) our consumption of water here in the United States was totally unsustainable, what I didn't fully appreciate is how out of sync with natural limits our water consumption is - that is, until I learned that in nearby Rockland County (NY) there are actually plans afoot to construct a desalination plant on the banks of the Hudson Rover:

www.riverkeeper.org/.../waterf.../united-water-desal/

...and that elsewhere around New England (and the greater New England area) there are several other desalination plants already in operation.

Aquaria Taunton River Desalination Plant in Dighton, MA – http://www.aquariawater.com/

Swansea Desalination Facility in Swansea, MA – http://www.hdrinc.com/portf.../swansea-desalination-facility

Cape May Desalination Facility in Cape May, New Jersey - http://www.capemaycity.com/sustain.../WaterConservation.html

Keansburg Desalination Facility in Keansburg, New Jersey – www.mycentraljersey.com/article/B3/20120...y=mod_sectionstories

Obviously the existence of these facilities contradicts the commonly held belief that our region is a water-rich part of the world. Desalination, as you know, is an incredibly energy intensive and expensive (and polluting) technology that has historically been reserved for the most water scarce regions of the world (mostly desert nations). So, to find examples of it cropping up in my own backyard was quite ominous. And though I am just guessing here, I think that were we to undertake a serious review of the conditions in other similarly situated places (industrialized regions with unsustainable human populations, for instance) we'd find all kinds of corollaries.

Based on this reality, therefore, I don't think there's a place anywhere (at least in my own country) where water should be used to transport human excreta. We've proven that we can't be trusted with managing the basic elements of the process and so I worry that adding more water into the mix (in the form of captured rainwater) would just prolong the inevitable.

As for your assertion of legacy wastewater systems being, "...way too expensive in construction and operation to be of any use in ~80% of the world," I agree wholeheartedly and I'd even go so far as to argue that my own country should be included in your 80% figure. I base this on the fact that not only are we totally irresponsible when it comes to water usage but we're already having trouble maintaining our existing sanitation infrastructure (and we're yet not experiencing the full combined effects of the looming low-energy future and climate change). This is why I am advocating locally in Vermont for the kind of sustainable approaches that most of you are pursuing in locations throughout the Majority World (and in a few select pockets in the Minority World too).

In fact, my thinking has come so far that I now believe it to be flush toilets that are the inferior technology. This is so ingrained that every time I'm forced to use a flush toilet (which is to say almost all of the time) I am filled with disgust at the utter waste. The question I have for you, therefore, is do we need to devise an ecological/sustainable toilet design that's not seen as inferior to flush toilets (as you suggest) or do we need to open people's eyes to the realities that we all face and to the clear benefits of existing sustainable designs? I'm partial to the latter because I really believe that most people are looking for a way to do something positive and that with just a little encouragement these same folks could be convinced to embrace existing ecological toilet technology as a very effective means to this end. Otherwise, waiting for the "perfect" toilet design to come along might mean that we'll be waiting forever.]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Mon, 15 Sep 2014 19:01:54 +0000
Re: Ecosan - what is it really? And what is the problem with ecosan? Is there a problem? - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10167 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10021-ecosan-what-is-it-really-and-what-is-the-problem-with-ecosan-is-there-a-problem?limit=12&start=36#10167
But you are right that industrial waste should not be simply diluted but rather treated at the source (as often the case in Europe), and that there need to be more stringent measures to prevent certain substances from reaching the environment (or consumers) in the first place.

But the real issue with legacy waste-waster systems is that they are way too expensive in construction and operation to be of any use in ~80% of the world, and that all too often they promote a "flush and forget" mentality with very little end of pipe treatment taking place.

Of course the nutrient cycling and all that are good goals too, but when looking at the huge need for safer sanitation in the world, I mainly see sustainable sanitation (as in dry toilets) as a model that is realistic to finance and operate in most of the world (and doesn't waste water in dry areas). I therefore think that there is a need to come up with a model that isn't seen as inferior to flush-toilets as people really don't like to be forced to use "second rate" technologies.]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Mon, 15 Sep 2014 05:32:16 +0000
What is the difference between ecological sanitation (ecosan) and sustainable sanitation? When are they the same and when not? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10165 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any-other-topic-related-to-sanitation-or-to-susana/10165-what-is-the-difference-between-ecological-sanitation-ecosan-and-sustainable-sanitation-when-are-they-the-same-and-when-not#10165 Note by moderator: This post was originally in this thread but it began a new side topic, hence I created this new thread to make it easier for people - especially those that don't read daily on the forum - to follow.

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As I just posted over on the other portion of the original thread (forum.susana.org/forum/categories/39-any...2&start=24#10164), yes, I feel we are spending too much time on "ecological sanitation" when what we should be focused on are real and lasting sanitation solutions, in other words, "sustainable sanitation". [Sigh]]]>
Any other topic related to sanitation or to SuSanA Sun, 14 Sep 2014 21:30:22 +0000