SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Mon, 01 Sep 2014 07:28:07 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Looking for a mould for producing UDDT locally in Moldova - by: CWendland http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4120-looking-for-a-mould-for-producing-uddt-locally-in-moldova#9873 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4120-looking-for-a-mould-for-producing-uddt-locally-in-moldova#9873
just like to clarify that the concrete toilet seats are still beging produced in Kyrgyzstan and in use:
www.flickr.com/photos/gtzecosan/6820279776/

The challenge with these concrete toilets is to use a good paint so that they last long time without troubles. If the paint is not good or not properly applied, it might peel off and the toilet starts to smell.

Best regards
Claudia]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 25 Aug 2014 10:09:53 +0000
Re: Reply: UDDT Squat pan needed for Myanmar Project - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7421-uddt-squat-pan-needed-for-myanmar-project#9856 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7421-uddt-squat-pan-needed-for-myanmar-project#9856
It is good to know that your project continues, despite complications.

I am surprised that you have not found a Chinese supplier of plastic squat pans yet. Are imports into Myanmar complicated? What is the cost per square meter of the most economical ceramic tiles?

In the mean time, you may like to start demonstrating that UDDTs are a viable option, yourself and with selected community members, by applying this minimalist design:
inodoroseco.blogspot.com/2013/10/a-free-...ist-uddt-part-1.html
(and follow the link to Part 2)

People need to see and smell that UDDTs work and that the final "biosolids" are just beautiful soil, so it is good to get a headstart on this demonstration.

I also recommend this Minimalist UDDT as a test for each family of users, before a fancier, more permanent unit is built for them, to make sure that they really understand the concept and are ready to apply it. This would greatly reduce the rate of misused or disused units ... plus no one would want to be crossed off the list for being messy or not being able to follow instructions. (In the normal case, toilets are given to the users and we just hope that they have understood everything ... and many times UDDTs sit there like white elephants because no one dares to make the first deposit, since this is a new system that they are unfamiliar with.)

I look forward to your update on the project.

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 23 Aug 2014 09:41:46 +0000
Re: Reply: UDDT Squat pan needed for Myanmar Project - by: davidsutton http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7421-uddt-squat-pan-needed-for-myanmar-project#9854 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7421-uddt-squat-pan-needed-for-myanmar-project#9854 Thanks for your advice and apologies for delay in response, and really appreciate your comments. just these past 6 months have been a nightmare with work and legal issues.
I am pretty sold on obtaining plastic squat pans but still need to find a supplier.
Ill post a update in a few days on my struggles so far.
Once again humble apologies for delayed reply
Kind regards David]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 23 Aug 2014 04:44:45 +0000
Re: Looking for a mould for producing UDDT locally in Moldova - by: davidsutton http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4120-looking-for-a-mould-for-producing-uddt-locally-in-moldova#9853 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4120-looking-for-a-mould-for-producing-uddt-locally-in-moldova#9853 Thanks for your response and sorry for delay, had a few issues to resolve over past 6 months.
I have decided to pursue the plastic squat pans for Myanmar installations
Still no joy in finding a supplier for these. Currently chasing up a few leads but best prospect is to get a die made for plastic injection and manufacture in the country. I just need to settle on a design.
If you know of any proven squat pan types id appreciate the link
Kind regards and thanks again
David]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 23 Aug 2014 04:12:13 +0000
Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets - by: sjoerdnienhuys http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9699 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9699 Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 11 Aug 2014 14:46:54 +0000 Reply: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets - by: klamichhane http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9687 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9687
I always observe some posts or comments/activities from you on SUSANA forum and am always curious to talk to you but did not succeed to acquire your personal e-mail address.

I am Krishna from Nepal currently living in Honolulu, Hawaii (USA). If you still remember, we got a lot of help from GTZ (ecosan team) and personally from you for the ecosan conferences that I organized in Kathmandu, Nepal, back in 2005. We also met in GTZ Eschborn headquarters during a workshop and I still remember you taking me to the festival in Frankfurt (I guess) in the evening.

Could you please forward me your e-mail address? Thank you

-- Krishna Lamichhane Honolulu, Hawaii, USA

+++++++++++
Note by moderator: You can actually contact Florian (or any other user) simply by clicking on the "contact" button to the left of his post (when you are logged in). If it's not working for whatever reason, please contact the secretariat: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sun, 10 Aug 2014 09:27:26 +0000
Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets - by: Florian http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9674 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9674 I add two more photos of the mentionned test urinal in our office. I also checked for the slope of urine pipes, we use 2.5 %. Urine pipes are also ventilated (connected to the vent pipes ventilating fecal collection chambers), this hasn't been done previously.
Best regards,
Florian]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 08 Aug 2014 11:01:39 +0000
Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9639 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9639
Thanks! ]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 07 Aug 2014 02:38:21 +0000
Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets - by: noe-hays http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9618 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9618
--Abe]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 06 Aug 2014 03:45:38 +0000
Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets - by: Florian http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9616 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9616
thanks for the reply and your comments.

The smell trap works perfectly, I've tested it myself in the pilot device, which is installed in our office in Molodva and used by all male staff since 4 months. The ball lifts without problems, smell is well contained.
The questions is how long does it work well before ball and/or rubber seal needs to be changed.

If it has not worked for you, perhaps it has to do with the ratio of diameters of the ball and the sealing?

As for the urine piping, I agree it looks like the slope is not much. It's not horizontal though, I think it has about 2-3% slope. Our installations are relatively large at times, with several toilets cabins in a row, and slope needs to be optimised. I think our engineers just apply the same slope in all pipings, even though in the urinals shown in the picture, there would be enough room for a stronger slope. In our experience, 2-3% works quite well. Important is that slope is constant and that there are no horizontal bits. Of course strong slopes like 20 degrees would be on the safe side but this is not feasabile in buildings with 10 to 15 m of lenght.

Best regards, Florian]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 05 Aug 2014 18:41:18 +0000
Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets - by: Ecowaters http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9615 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9615
The ping pong ball "lifting trap" approach has not worked for us. The ball does not lift.

However, one person tells me it works for his urinal.

These are interesting urinals. I would install the connecting urine line with more slope to it--angled at least 20 degrees.
Urine will pool in a horizontal pipe and sludge will accumulate. This will create odor. We had this experience with poorly installed Wost-Man Eco-Dry urine-diverting toilet stools. We had to re-install the piping.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 05 Aug 2014 18:24:12 +0000
Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets - by: Florian http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9614 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/6679-simple-urine-valves-to-control-odour-on-waterless-urinals-or-on-urine-diversion-toilets?limit=12&start=24#9614 I would like to share photos of a ping pong ball valve that my colleagues in Moldova now are testing in the school toilets supported by our project. So far we used condoms, the hope is that the ping pong balls work longer before they need to be replaced. It's done with ping pong balls and simple PVC pipes and rubber sealings.
It has been tested on pilot scale (cherry can urinal in our offices) for a few months and is now tested in real scale in some new school toilets.
Best regards, Florian]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 05 Aug 2014 17:35:22 +0000
Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9499 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9499
Recycling of cover material is imminently practical, as no solids need to be transported long distance, to or fro, with who knows what vehicle and who knows what petroleum (or donkey power). It also inoculates the new feces with at least some of the same soil microbes that broke down the feces of the previous cycle. If we have reliable treatment (via heat, sun, thermophilic composting and/or long storage), no significant amounts of pathogenic microbes will remain and there is minimal health risk. Remember that any system can be used incorrectly (like having flush toilets dump straight into rivers where people swim and drink).

In my experience, recycled cover material controls smell and flies much better than the mix of sawdust and ashes that we used before. I am also convinced that this gets even better year after year, likely due to accumulation and natural selection of the soil microbe species present and potentially even some evolution, given that microbes evolve so quickly. See the scientific papers cited in this interview, for support for the idea that finished compost is one of the best materials for covering the smell of composting or landfills:
www.chekhovskalashnikov.com/human-waste-disposal/

The limitations to this recycling are mental and cultural, due to fecophobia (irrational fear of feces) and the illogical belief that "once feces, always feces" (and that the entire planet is gradually being converted to feces), since no one would identify its origin by smell, color or texture. In addition, it mostly consists of the original cover material, since the feces largely disintegrate, with their water evaporating out and their microbes killing each other until they occupy very little volume.

If users are concerned about pathogens still persisting, they will remember to wash their hands, which they currently often do not. The recycled cover material can also be added mechanically, avoiding direct contact with the user.

Yes, one can check "finished biosolids" for Ascaris Helminth eggs by looking at them with a microscope and these eggs are quite characteristic, with their golden color and bumpy surface. There are techniques to concentrate the eggs and increase one's chances of finding them, which is the subject of another current thread:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/26-hea...ce-a-better-way#8176

Last year, a student intern did one, isolated 3M PetriFilm trial for E. coli in the one-year-old recycled cover material by mixing it into water and applying the normal procedure for water samples. During incubation, 2 blue spots developed, indicating that 2 E. coli bacteria were present -- roughly an order of magnitude acceptable for a swimming pool. (I can look up more detail on this trial, if anyone likes.)

Update. I no longer mix wood ashes into the recycled cover material, since I do not want to kill the beneficial microbes. Also, most people do not have access to large amounts of ash ... which might best be used as fertilizer (including mixed with urine). I do mix in some 10% rice hulls, to replace lost volume through decomposition of the sawdust originally used as cover material and to increase air flow through the pile. (Other resistant, bulky, food-processing wastes, such as crushed egg shells, squash shells or manioc fibers, could also be excellent to mix into cover material.) I also sometimes replace lost volume with dry organic soil, in order to maintain a one-year detention time (longer than probably necessary, for peace of mind and further drying).

There is more detail on this recycling in previous posts:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fer...rt-of-processing#505

forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fer...=12&start=12#531

Thanks for asking, Stew. Keep sending any questions you may have.

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 26 Jul 2014 11:20:15 +0000
Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: StewMartin http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9482 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9482
No, not involved in that India project. One Rotary WaSH project in India, more often in Indonesia and CenAm, one is percolating in Tanzania.

I've followed some of your posts here, viewed website and video ... very informative!

Idea of wax or sealant on bamboo is interesting; might extend life 6-12+ months. The villagers came up with the idea of gedek on bamboo frames; but gedek (aka kedek) is like dried palm fronds, will rot too quickly. We are now looking for the woven plastic bags. No PET beverage bottles in Sumba villages; quite primitive rural area, as much or more so than sub-Sahara.

I see you use dried humus (re-purpose) to be the drying carbonaceous material for next round of feces; how does that work? As well as firepit ash, sawdust, minced leaves?

I read lots on 6-12+ months for dehydration, some speculation on shorter periods ... but being a biologist, how does one really test to verify helminth egg inactivation? Looking a samples under microscope doesn't tell, does it?
And have you used 3M Petrifilm on a suspension made from the material to count e.coli or coliform CFU's?

Stew]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 24 Jul 2014 22:11:52 +0000
Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9473 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9473
Thanks for the update. Is the Rotary also involved in Lucas's project in India? Please tell us more about yourself and the advances of the project.

Woven, polypropylene sacks are usually very easy to get, as they are commonly used for rice, flour, sugar, chemical fertilizers, etc. Used sacks here in Ecuador can cost as little as US$ 0.10. (I suggest asking to buy these from the local bakery.) These sacks are also often used to dispose of garbage, so they may be rescued by dumping their contents orderly into the garbage ... and given what we will be putting into them, they do not need to be very clean.

Weaving each container seems too laborious, especially if they will rot in use. It may be interesting to weave a basket made from non-biodegradable strips cut spirally from PET beverage bottles to hold the sack open.

Wax may be useful to protect biodegradable basket materials, but I would suggest that the container should best not be water-proof or air-tight, to allow excess liquids to drain into the soil under the toilet (or in some other organized way) thus reducing the production of odors and to allow oxygen to filter into the pile of feces to allow for normal, aerobic decomposition.

Is Gedek a type of bamboo?

Best wishes,
Chris]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:12:55 +0000