SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Sat, 25 Oct 2014 08:43:15 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Developing urine diversion systems in a developed world context - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/1853-developing-urine-diversion-systems-in-a-developed-world-context?limit=12&start=24#10690 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/1853-developing-urine-diversion-systems-in-a-developed-world-context?limit=12&start=24#10690
For example:

1) Ostara has at least once availed itself of magnesium chloride sourced from a supplier in China (the procurement of which undoubtedly involved the use of fossil-fuel powered ships) [this could be mitigated in some cases by using locally derived bittern;

2) The production of lye (sodium hydroxide) is inherently unsustainable,

3) Ostara's reactor is designed primarily with legacy wastewater systems in mind;

4) Ostara's technology is heavily dependent on large sources of capital and large amounts of energy.

Based on the above, Ostara's "Reactor 2000" strikes me as a classic example of a "green" techno-fix; in other words, something that's being billed as "green" but which will not in the end solve the underlying problem that it purports to be tackling. And as a result this is not something that I would support given that as far as I'm concerned those scant public funds available should instead be going towards systems (like that being pushed by Rich Earth Institute) that will better stand the test of time (and, in particular, the low-water and low-energy future facing us). In marked contrast to Ostara's "solution", source-separation and reuse can be very easily implemented using locally sourced materials and facilitated, if need be, via horse-drawn (or even bicycle-powered) forms of transportation.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 24 Oct 2014 23:02:50 +0000
Re: Developing urine diversion systems in a developed world context - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/1853-developing-urine-diversion-systems-in-a-developed-world-context?limit=12&start=24#10687 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/1853-developing-urine-diversion-systems-in-a-developed-world-context?limit=12&start=24#10687 Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 24 Oct 2014 20:02:10 +0000 Re: Article in The Namibian newspaper: Communities unhappy with dry toilet project - by: Maria123 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10685 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10685
So for now I will try to read as much as I can and If I'm to get stucked along the way then I'll let you know.

I will keep you all updated. Since I'm not only here to gain but to also share.

Greetings
Maria ]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 24 Oct 2014 17:01:56 +0000
Re: Article in The Namibian newspaper: Communities unhappy with dry toilet project - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10680 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10680

If I had to pose a research question it would be "what is hampering the upscaling of Otji toilets in Namibia?" - rather than looking at some fine technical details of the toilet...

Perhaps you could even team up with a second student and do it as a tandem: one to look at technical aspects, one to look at policy and institutional aspects.

This paper asked the same question for the case of Omaruru:

Ingle, R., Berdau, S., Kleemann, F., Arndt, P. (2012). What does it take to convince decision makers in Omaruru, Namibia to scale up urine diversion dehydration “Otji toilets”?. 4th International Dry Toilet Conference, Tampere, Finland

www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/1608

One hyphothesis I have is that the money (grants) from the European Union that seems to be available is always promising flush toilets and sewer systems "soon" so people rather hope for that than go for the simpler and cheaper Otji toilets. Could that be a factor or do I have completely the wrong idea?

Cheers,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:58:35 +0000
Re: City Partnerships for Urban Sanitation Service Delivery (BMGF and DfID funded) - by: hoffma http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10539-video-about-two-dry-sanitation-service-models-by-utilities-in-peru#10679 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10539-video-about-two-dry-sanitation-service-models-by-utilities-in-peru#10679
I would like to give you follow up on your question about Economics:

The second case (SEDE Juliaca) requiered a more complex systeme (high water table). All SERVICE ACTiVITIES are included in the tariff (2,80 USD per month, for 750 hoeseholds):
- Dried feces (twin vault): 6 month collection, treatment in vermicomposting followed by solarization
- Urine: collection (small bore sewer, storage and transport to co-treatment in the existent WWTP
- Greywater: collection (small bore sewer) and treatment in constructed wetlands

INVESTMENT costs are not included in tariffs (Peruvian regulation), so, $1,790 (2,750 soles) investment in treatment per household means - for the utility:
- Construction of Vermicomposting and solarization, 8 compartments each and station for reception/operation
- Instalation of 64 Plastic tanks (5m³) with small bore sewer for urine drainage
- Instalation of 7 constructed wetlands with small bore sewer for greywater
- Training for operation stuff
- Training for user of UD-toilets

In this case sewer connection for the settlement would be twice as expensive.

In the first case (Moyobamba) the service is less complex (onsite disposal/use of urine and greywater is aceptable) - and sewer would be no option.

Regards, Heike]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:06:48 +0000
Re: Article in The Namibian newspaper: Communities unhappy with dry toilet project - by: Maria123 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10678 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10678 [Start of Page 2 of the discussion thread]

Dear Chris

You have given me very interesting ideas regarding my research.
The Research will only be conducted next year, for now I'm just reviewing some literature and getting ideas so that I don't spend much time on this next year hence as they say "the early bird catches the biggest worm.

I've already made arrangements regarding the laboratory, so that is now sorted.

This is really helping a lot. I now have a broad vision of my research.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 24 Oct 2014 11:05:43 +0000
Re: Article in The Namibian newspaper: Communities unhappy with dry toilet project - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10673 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10673
You would not need a full laboratory. It should be enough to have a microscope (and maybe a centrifuge, depending on the protocol) to look for Ascaris eggs, so maybe there is a Malaria lab or a university that can give you access to a microscope. I think we should optimally work out a protocol that only requires a microscope, as discussed here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/26-hea...ce-a-better-way#8176

If the users do not have Ascaris parasitic worms, small envelopes of mesh with feces known to have Ascaris could be added to the toilet, to later be checked.

I would like to mention that there are less expensive dry toilets than Otji Toilets, for example those on my blog, inodoroseco.blogspot.com. Optimally each family should have their own toilet.

Other things you could look at include:
-- How well the urine-separating groove works that was added to the Otji toilet pedestals.
-- User acceptance of UDDTs.
-- Factors why some people do open defecation.
-- Effectiveness of Otji Toilets in avoiding fly reproduction without cover material. (Am I correct that no cover material is used?).
-- Fertilization of crop plants with urine and/or decomposed feces (and percentages of dilution of urine with domestic greywater).
-- Immediate distribution of urine within the soil, via buried perforated hoses (potentially mixed with greywater) and the fruit trees and other crops that best take advantage of this.

It is great that you are doing your project on this. Please let us know how things go and your results.

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday


[End of Page 1 of the discussion thread]]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 24 Oct 2014 03:12:53 +0000
Re: Developing urine diversion systems in a developed world context - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/1853-developing-urine-diversion-systems-in-a-developed-world-context?limit=12&start=24#10667 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/1853-developing-urine-diversion-systems-in-a-developed-world-context?limit=12&start=24#10667
The Canadian company Ostara has been mentioned a few times in this thread, so when I saw their promotional video today mentioned on their twitter account (@OstaraTech) I thought that some of you might be interested in it:



I think it's quite a nice little video.

And Kai was right to point out that the crystals (fertiliser) that they produce comes from wastewater and not, as Carol had said from pure urine (OK, you could say wastewater is a mixture of water and urine and therefore the fertiliser is made from urine indirectly).

It really seems like quite an innovative company. The fertiliser is called Crystal Green.

More information is on their website of course: www.ostara.com/

Is this one example for a system where a water-based sanitation system with conventional wastewater treatment plants is leading to an ecosan-type system (i.e. with reuse) like we discussed quite controversially about the wastewater reuse in Braunschweig, Germany here: ?

forum.susana.org/forum/categories/40-irr...s-it-goodsustainable

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 23 Oct 2014 18:06:10 +0000
Re: Article in The Namibian newspaper: Communities unhappy with dry toilet project - by: Maria123 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10665 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10665
The dry system is used in poor communities, areas where flush-toilets will be too expensive. The Otji-Toilets are mostly found in the south of Namibia and the rural areas around the Otjiwarongo District.

I hope I have answered your question.

Greetings
Maria]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:50:42 +0000
Re: Reseach Topic Assistance - Otji toilets (UDDTs) in Namibia - by: Maria123 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10664 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10664
It will be quiet costly having to travel back and forth because I didn't receive any funding for my research yet. However it would be interesting though to find out how well it deals with watery diarrhea.

I have visited some of the Otji-Toilet in the south and something I have picked up is that the users are responsible for disposing off the human waste but they are not provided with any area that is designed for that purpose.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 23 Oct 2014 14:27:10 +0000
Re: Reseach Topic Assistance - Otji toilets (UDDTs) in Namibia - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10653 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10653
Does your University have laboratory facilities you can use to test for example faecal bacteria contamination in the diverted urine? Might be interesting to see how well the system deals with watery diarrhoea and what extra precautions might be necessary before applying the urine as fertilizer then.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 22 Oct 2014 12:13:39 +0000
Reseach Topic Assistance - Otji toilets (UDDTs) in Namibia - by: Maria123 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10649 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10649-reseach-topic-assistance-otji-toilets-uddts-in-namibia?limit=12&start=12#10649


Next year will be my final year and I will be required to conduct a research in any area relevant to my field of study. I've chosen to focus on water and sanitation in Namibia as that is where I have identified a gab in most of the rural areas. My main focus being on the Otji-Toilets which are recommended for most poor communities in the south of Namibia.



I know what I want to research on but I'm finding it difficult to come up with a topic for my research.


Suggestions on any researchable topic that has to do with sanitation are highly welcomed.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 22 Oct 2014 09:57:35 +0000
Re: City Partnerships for Urban Sanitation Service Delivery (BMGF and DfID funded) - by: denniskl http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10539-video-about-two-dry-sanitation-service-models-by-utilities-in-peru#10641 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10539-video-about-two-dry-sanitation-service-models-by-utilities-in-peru#10641
will read manuals and docs]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 22 Oct 2014 02:16:00 +0000
Re: City Partnerships for Urban Sanitation Service Delivery (BMGF and DfID funded) - by: christoph http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10539-video-about-two-dry-sanitation-service-models-by-utilities-in-peru#10640 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10539-video-about-two-dry-sanitation-service-models-by-utilities-in-peru#10640 so many questions. I will try to answer at least some now.
Krishan:
we always do double vault because we don´t trust. A double vault has a need to collect every 6-12 month, a sack system is dependent on a well functioning service model. I think this might be the future but right now I do not trust these solutions. I think we discussed this aspect somewhere already.

Elisabeth:
we do have a short version but only in Spanish

we did it for the Latinamerican "market". for Africa or India other points have to be stressed.
Our aim was to show that "cultural" problems are not an issue for implementation (coastal, high mountain area and tropical climate) and that two different service provider (for different reasons) adopted the model.

Dennis:
too many questions to answer today everything.

If the UDDT technology and systems are as all-purpose as they seem, does this mean we can all stop building latrines tomorrow (as long as the funding is there)?

I am very convinced of UDDT double bench systems BUT.. WITH service model much better. And for service models perfect.

for your question 8: find attached the manual.http://www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/1495

5. Vermiculture is post- removal and not expressed in the video we pretend to do a solar sterilization.

1. I don´t have the numbers on hand but yes obviously there is a breakdown of costs.
Have a look on this publication instead, it has a broad brakedown of costs for a slightly different situation.
http://www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/961

3. have a look at the manual (see above) and you will find a broad set of solutions for local material

4. see the manual

The rest I have to leave for another post.

Thanks for asking

Christoph]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 22 Oct 2014 01:14:25 +0000
Re: City Partnerships for Urban Sanitation Service Delivery (BMGF and DfID funded) - by: denniskl http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10539-video-about-two-dry-sanitation-service-models-by-utilities-in-peru#10637 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/10539-video-about-two-dry-sanitation-service-models-by-utilities-in-peru#10637
Some questions as I am still unclear on a few things

1. Is there a breakdown of the costings of $1,792 (2750 soles) per unit please?

2. Is cost highly variable due to local labour and material costs?

3. Is the design such that there is opportunity for local fabrication / manufacture using the same concept to ensure maximum affordability?

4. Also I didn't see the instructions for use of the UDDT as far as faeces management goes - can you point me to a link with those instructions please? Mentioned was sawdust and other materials as part of the process but not the specifics - how much per usage, application etc. I am still unsure of how the diversion of the urine (on it's own) actually achieves a better dry faecal outcome, so perhaps this is explained in the instructions for use?

5. Vermiculture was mentioned but I am unsure of this was in the drying period in the vault or post-removal?)

6. Are there any differences in usage and requirements (and results) with regard to whether cultural norms require / prefer anal washing vs dry wiping?

7. There was limited mention of the challenges involved in deploying this seemingly widely suitable design approach (other than the normal cost factors) - as things are never as easy as they appear, perhaps you can explain where the significant challenges are in simply deploying this approach on large scale in multiple peri-urban locations around the world?

8. If the UDDT technology and systems are as all-purpose as they seem, does this mean we can all stop building latrines tomorrow (as long as the funding is there)?

Can we for example simply get the (for example:) "GIZ Peri-Urban and Rural UDDT System Implementation Manual", find some funders and start community and government stakeholder consultation around the world tomorrow - or should we expect barriers that the Pilot Projects have come across, but weren't mentioned in the video?

9. As the dry faecal output is user-friendly and able to be immediately used as compost, does this remove the whole Faecal Sludge management (FSM) issue because, even if the collection services fail, the dried material should be able to be locally disposed of with no health and contamination results shouldn't it?

This is the subject of another question thread I had on this forum (that was answered by Blake thank you) and FSM is a huge issue generally - has this approach solved the whole FSM issue or only in certain circumstances?]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 21 Oct 2014 22:43:43 +0000