SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Wed, 23 Apr 2014 08:50:47 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Flush UD and waterless urinal: breakdown costs - by: PatrickBBB http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4353-flush-ud-and-waterless-urinal-breakdown-costs-and-seawater-for-toilet-flushing-struvite-production-research-in-hong-kong#8288 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4353-flush-ud-and-waterless-urinal-breakdown-costs-and-seawater-for-toilet-flushing-struvite-production-research-in-hong-kong#8288 This article describes the climatic and hydrological conditions of Hong Kong in the context of water supply. The article also briefly describes the utilization of salt water for flushing:
myweb.polyu.edu.hk/~cekwchau/WRD.pdf (copy the URL into your browser, as direct click doesn't work)

It seems that the combination of a lack of fresh water sources and a high population density possibly coupled with too much variation of the rainfall makes it economically feasible. With a high enough discrepancy between supply and demand the most surprising technologies might be feasible. For instance; in the Canary island desalinated water is used for irrigation. All though I bet subsidies plays a major role in that particular case.

As for corrosion, that could easily be solved by using non-corrosive material (i.e. PVC)?
Salt-deposit I guess you could try to avoid any depression of the pipelines, also ensure that you have a self-cleaning velocity?
As for a second water distribution system, I guess there is no way around that?

I know there is some research in the Netherlands (in collaboration with researchers from Hong Kong and South Africa) regarding utilization of salt water for flushing. A really interesting side effect of using salt water is that you can treat the waste water with sulphate reducing bacteria. I am adding some interesting resources regarding this.

ibtwm.web.ua.pt/congress/Proceedings/pap...en%20Brand_Tessa.pdf
www.zjubiolab.zju.edu.cn/wumin/userfiles...1-20091009085831.pdf]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 22 Apr 2014 11:31:19 +0000
Re: Flush UD and waterless urinal: breakdown costs - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4353-flush-ud-and-waterless-urinal-breakdown-costs-and-seawater-for-toilet-flushing-struvite-production-research-in-hong-kong#8280 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4353-flush-ud-and-waterless-urinal-breakdown-costs-and-seawater-for-toilet-flushing-struvite-production-research-in-hong-kong#8280
I would like to pick up on something that you wrote here in your posts and to me by e-mail:

I am a PhD student simulating the production of struvite from dense settings such as in Hong Kong, using seawater for toilet flushing (SWTF) as a source of free of charge Mg for P recovery. SWTF has been practiced in Hong Kong since 1958.

Hong Kong has practiced seawater toilet flushing (SWTF) since 1958. Today, it
serves 80% of its population (WSD, 2009). This has helped save 750,000 m3/day or
20% of the municipal water demand, all-be-it cost effectively (Leung et al., 2012).


It has occurred to me that elsewhere on the forum, the suggestion of using seawater for toilet flushing was made by Juergen Tuemmler:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/139-in...anitation-myths#7756

Juergen said:
Where water for flushing is lacking, one might look at the use of sea water for flushing and sewerage (many, if not most of mega-urban settlements are sited along the coasts) and appropriate purification connected before letting the residues going back into the sea.


I had written a reply to Juergen on the forum in the same thread on 14 March:

Jürgen also said "Where water for flushing is lacking, one might look at the use of sea water for flushing and sewerage". Sea water for flushing? I don't think so. You would get corrosion and salt build-up everywhere in the system. Plus you would first have to pipe and pump the sewater to some reservoir, then you would need a separate water distribution system to the houses just for flushing their toilets. Doesn't sound sensible to me.


It now seems to me that what I wrote is not correct; however, I still don't understand how you can make it cost effective - having the issues of corrosion, salt build-up and second reticulation system?

How come this can be cost effective in Hong Kong? Is it due to the extreme density of housing? Or the very high cost of potable water (how high is it?). And are there any other cities in the world that also practise it to the same extent as Hong Kong, and if not, why not? Is Hong Kong's set-up very unique? What about Tokyo for example?

And did you get any further with your enquiries about the EcoVac toilet from Wostman in Sweden?
www.wostman.com/ecovac.html





(was listed in this document: susana.org/lang-en/library?view=ccbktype...p;type=2&id=1148)


Kind regards,
Elisabeth

P.S. I am curious: your last name does not sound like an Asian name. Are you from a country in Africa?]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 22 Apr 2014 08:07:18 +0000
Re: Valentine's Toilet With A Natural Heart - by: Wolfgang Berger http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8252 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8252
Fungus gnats in composting toilets can develop, if the material is too wet. Absorbent material such as shredded and dried pine bark in conjunction with a ventilation pipe would improve the drying process.
To combat fungus gnats biologically, nematodes are used. They are available from companies for organic crop protection (eg. in Germany oere-bio-protect.de Novo Nem nematode Steinernema feltiae).

Good luck
Wolfgang]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 16 Apr 2014 09:47:35 +0000
Re: Valentine's Toilet With A Natural Heart - by: Amos http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8245 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8245
Does anyone have suggestions on how to eliminate or control fungus gnats in composting toilets. Although odor has been quite easy to control the last two years of using our unvented toilet which is much like this Valentine's Toilet, we yet are having a problem with fungus gnats. Emptying the waste container weekly and washing it to remove all eggs would likely take care of the gnats, but such takes effort. If only one or two people are using the toilet, the four cell bucket only needs emptied once every two or three weeks which gives much time for gnats to hatch especially in the cell that was filled first. Further when emptied the eggs stick on the walls even after the bucket is emptied and then will hatch. Regarding the matter of odor the waste container never needs cleaned, as adding soil together with the obstructing gate is very sufficient for odor control even though not vented. Any help on fungus gnat control would be greatly appreciated!! Thank you.

Bender]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 15 Apr 2014 18:25:29 +0000
Re: Valentine's Toilet With A Natural Heart - by: Amos http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8084 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8084
This link gives a bit of information on the toilet. Although this design is made of plastic it works the same way.

liftupthepoor.net/SimSan.html .

Your are also welcome to see the above updated video.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 02 Apr 2014 21:56:34 +0000
recherche plans, schémas ou tutoriels pour urinoirs évènementiels / looking for drawing or tutorial for urinal diverting system during events - by: Florent http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8074-recherche-plans-schemas-ou-tutoriels-pour-urinoirs-evenementiels--looking-for-drawing-or-tutorial-for-urinal-diverting-system-during-events#8074 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8074-recherche-plans-schemas-ou-tutoriels-pour-urinoirs-evenementiels--looking-for-drawing-or-tutorial-for-urinal-diverting-system-during-events#8074 Je recherche des plans d'urinoirs mobiles qui seraient construits dans le cadre d'ateliers avec des jeunes de ma ville et utilisés dans une animation qui aura lieu cet été.
Je voulais demander si des membres ont capitalisé sur des plans ou des tutoriels de montage?
Je pense notamment à des urinoirs en ligne sur une tôle recourbée avec un tuyau de collecte qui se jette dans un bidon ou un drain d'infiltration si la perméabilité du sol le permet...
Merci de vos retours.
-------------------------------
Dear all,

I'm looking for plans of mobile public urinals which would be built within the framework of workshops with young people of my city and used in an event which will take place this summer.
I wanted to ask if members capitalized on plans, drawing or tutorial of assembly?
I think in particular of on-line public urinals on a steel-sheet bent back with a pipe of collection which lead itself into a can or a drain of infiltration if the permeability of the ground allows it...

Thank you for your feedback.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 02 Apr 2014 08:27:31 +0000
Re: Valentine's Toilet With A Natural Heart - by: scottchen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8071 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8071 Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 02 Apr 2014 05:07:25 +0000 Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: maximmm http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india#8066 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india#8066
I've been thinking about this problem and wondered if anyone has tried a wooden bucket, planter or similar container lined with wax for capturing solids? In most locations I would expect that such a container and a supply of wax could both be locally sourced and then manufactured onsite.

I understand my idea probably has flaws but perhaps it might inspire you guys to think of something new.

Thanks
Steve]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 02 Apr 2014 01:01:29 +0000
Re: Valentine's Toilet With A Natural Heart - by: Amos http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8053 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8053


Thank You]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 01 Apr 2014 02:10:42 +0000
Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india#8031 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india#8031
I am glad you find useful the idea of storing feces in woven polypropylene sacks.

In our system, we tend to change the sacks when they are entirely full, often after about 2 weeks, but it would be better to change every week, before the sack is too heavy. For this reason, I suggest that the changing of the sack be integrated into a weekly schedule ... and there is no problem if the sack is not full.

(Our number of users is greater and more variable and we have 2 UDDTs. Plus your family of 5 would likely include small children, who do not contribute much volume. The type and volume of cover material is also an important variable, of which we use a cup of dry soil with each deposit. Yes, we store the feces for one year, for more peace of mind and more drying, although 6 months seems to be sufficient to eliminate Ascaris eggs according to trials we have done.)

For a family of 5, I would recommend changing the sack once or twice per week, which will require 52 or 104 sacks, if they are stored for a year for extra security, at an investment of only $5.20 or $10.40, if you can buy used flour sacks for $0.10 in India, as I do here in Ecuador.

Given the dry tropical climate in southern India, it is likely that 6 months at ambient temperature would be sufficient, which can be tested by searching for Ascaris eggs under the microscope. In this case, only half as many sacks would be necessary: 27 or 52 ($2.70 or $5.20).

If the shed for storing the sacks is built such that it functions as a solar oven, the number of sacks, the detention time and the storage volume could all be greatly reduced.

I suggest that plastic bins that are just the right diameter for receiving the sacks would be the most practical item for holding the active sacks open in the "line of fire".

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sun, 30 Mar 2014 03:35:25 +0000
Valentine's Toilet With A Natural Heart - by: Amos http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8007 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/8007-valentines-toilet-with-a-natural-heart#8007
Below is a photo of a unique toilet with a naturally occurring heart, which incidentally was developed right over Valentine's Day. The toilet surprised it's designer, Bender, with it's unique heart, and additionally so because of it being Valentine's season. The heart is a natural result of the intersection of the parts. This link has a planned news article which speaks about this unique toilet www.liftupthepoor.net/HeartToilet.html . This toilet is one of many new toilet systems developed by Bender of Health Sanitation Systems (HSS), and which are shown at www.LiftUpThePoor.net . Bender's sanitation efforts, now known as HSS, were initiated by Google's request for ideas that would help the most people. Bender proprietor of HSS systems is freely sharing all of its toilet designs with the world, but would appreciate being notified by those who might be interested in them. Bender's designs are very original in nature. Thanks for looking.



]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 27 Mar 2014 13:13:16 +0000
Re: Flush UD and waterless urinal: breakdown costs - by: ambaya http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4353-flush-ud-and-waterless-urinal-breakdown-costs-and-seawater-for-toilet-flushing-struvite-production-research-in-hong-kong#8006 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/4353-flush-ud-and-waterless-urinal-breakdown-costs-and-seawater-for-toilet-flushing-struvite-production-research-in-hong-kong#8006
Thank you so much for your reply which I only got to read today. I shall keep you updated.

Best regards,

André]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 27 Mar 2014 12:51:18 +0000
Re: Research Log - compilation of contemporary toilet designs - by: Rod http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/3507-designers-inventors-tinkerers-unite-urine-diversion-squatting-plates-publication-compilation-of-contemporary-toilet-designs?limit=12&start=12#8002 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/3507-designers-inventors-tinkerers-unite-urine-diversion-squatting-plates-publication-compilation-of-contemporary-toilet-designs?limit=12&start=12#8002
Rod]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 27 Mar 2014 11:01:22 +0000
Re: Research Log - compilation of contemporary toilet designs - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/3507-designers-inventors-tinkerers-unite-urine-diversion-squatting-plates-publication-compilation-of-contemporary-toilet-designs?limit=12&start=12#8000 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/3507-designers-inventors-tinkerers-unite-urine-diversion-squatting-plates-publication-compilation-of-contemporary-toilet-designs?limit=12&start=12#8000
Thanks for posting the link to this document. I had a quick look at it, and I must say I am totally amazed at the beauty of the illustrations and at the wide variety of toilets included! Congratulations to all involved.

These illustrations are amazing. You told me that the original document had photos in them and it was decided to convert the photos into illustrations/drawings. This gives the publication a very "uniform" and professional feeling, so I congratulate the editor (Rod Shaw) and illustrator (Ken Chatterton). (was a software program used that can convert a photo into an illustration?)

I probably wouldn't have called it "contemporary toilet designs", I don't think this title fits very well, as the book also includes treatment aspects and many toilets that are more on the "research" side, rather than what I would call "contemporary".

It is noticeable that most of them use urine diversion. I don't know whether that's coincidence, or a trend, or whether you focussed on urine diversion because you knew that's what you wanted for your Blue Diversion Toilet (forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-us...12&start=24#7964)?

It reminds me a bit of the "Encycloopedia" by Kory Russel and Sebastien Tilmans which is also very nice:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/141-ot...s-all-out-there#6400

Thanks again for sharing your research log in this format.

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 27 Mar 2014 07:51:12 +0000
Research Log - by: bernhard http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/3507-designers-inventors-tinkerers-unite-urine-diversion-squatting-plates-publication-compilation-of-contemporary-toilet-designs?limit=12&start=12#7991 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/3507-designers-inventors-tinkerers-unite-urine-diversion-squatting-plates-publication-compilation-of-contemporary-toilet-designs?limit=12&start=12#7991 EOOS Design,
during our work on the Blue Diversion Toilet, just got published by Loughborough University.

It is a incomplete collection of interesting stuff that might be helpful for ever designer working in that field.

Here is a link where you can download a pdf for free:

https://wedc-knowledge.lboro.ac.uk/details.html?id=21302





Bernhard]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 27 Mar 2014 04:29:02 +0000