SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Sat, 01 Aug 2015 18:12:01 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Experiences with soak pits for urine management - by: biscarlos http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/14244-experiences-with-soak-pits-for-urine-management#14254 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/14244-experiences-with-soak-pits-for-urine-management#14254
Thank you so much for your help, I appreciate it so much, I will review all the information at this moment.
At this moment, in ECOSAN foundation we are making some studies for evaluate the best options for the managment of source-separated urine in several contexts in Chile (differents climates zones, types of users, etc.). One of this alternatives of management in decentralized-sanitation is the infiltration of the urine through the soil using a soak pit, we need some background for adequate our design to what happens in the reality, for this reason, I am searching some case studies that allow me to know another experiences about this topic.

Thank you very much again

Best Regards

Carlos]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 20 Jul 2015 14:40:36 +0000
Re: Experiences with soak pits for urine management - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/14244-experiences-with-soak-pits-for-urine-management#14246 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/14244-experiences-with-soak-pits-for-urine-management#14246 Nice to hear from you again. Please tell us more about your UDDT project in Chile?

For urine infiltration in the soil we have Chris Canaday (Ecuador) as an expert who uses it not just to get rid of the urine but to use it for fertiliser, too.* I guess that is your first question: do you have space (and water) to grow plants with the urine or do you just want it to disappear (and is the groundwater level deep enough and protected enough to not cause any harm there, i.e. groundwater pollution)? Urine soakaways without trying to grow plants are used in the large UDDT projects in Durban and Lima.

In the Wikipedia article on UDDTs, we have written it like this:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine-diverting_dry_toilet#Urine

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In cases where no reuse is possible or desired, urine is usually infiltrated in the soil unless this practice would cause groundwater pollution. In eThekwini municipality in South Africa[24] or in Lima, Peru, for example, urine from UDDTs is safely infiltrated into the soil because the groundwater level is very low there and the groundwater is not used for any particular purpose. Infiltration can be done by directing the urine to a soak pit or by running a perforated urine pipe from the toilet to an area outside, where the hose is sloping gently downhill (for rural areas). Clogging of the pipe's holes can be avoided by ensuring there are no T-junctions, no joints and that a plastic mesh is installed in the urine funnel of the toilet to keep everything other than urine out.
++++++++

And the GIZ Technology Review of UDDTs also mentions it briefly on page 33:
www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/874

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A soak pit – also called a soak away or leach pit – can be
covered or uncovered, and either empty or backfilled with
coarse material. Depths can range from about 1.5-4 m,
depending on the anticipated volume of urine and the
hydraulic conductivity of the soil. The pit may be lined with
a porous wall to provide structural support. Technical
details for construction can be found in Tilley et al. (2008).

A concrete ring beam with a lid should be placed at the top
of the soak pit to raise it slightly aboveground level and
thus clearly demarcate its location. Foreign materials often
fall into or are placed in uncovered pits, increasing the
likelihood of clogging. Therefore a cover is of advantage.
Alternatively, an infiltration trench offers another infiltration
option. Such a trench is composed of an approximately 5
cm diameter punched pipe, or diffuser, that is attached at
the discharge point of the urine drainage system. The
diffuser is placed in an approximately 0.5-1 m deep gravel
lined trench (see Figure 43) and the urine is discharged
into the subsurface over the length of the diffuser.
Vegetation can be planted alongside the trench to make
use of the urine nutrients.

Under certain circumstances urine may be drawn back
towards the surface by evaporation and capillarity, leading
to salinity issues but also increasing the likelihood that the
nutrients in urine will be taken up by plants which may be
planted next to the infiltration trench. The fate of the
infiltrated urine depends on the quantity, infiltration basin
size, as well as soil and climatic conditions.
Urine can infiltrate deep into the soil, potentially reaching
groundwater resources. Therefore it is important to conduct
an assessment of groundwater pollution (see following
Section) prior to the implementation of urine infiltration in
order to prevent unexpected environmental pollution.

Villa Maria de Triunfo/ kindergarten: separated infiltration by SuSanA Secretariat, on Flickr

Foto caption: Figure 43. Left: Construction of a subsurface infiltration
trench with gravel for greywater and urine at a school in
Peru (photo: H. Hoffmann, 2009).

++++++++++++

Please ask if you'd like to know more details?

There is also this sub-category on the forum where you might find more clues:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/175-fo...euse-or-infiltration

We actually struggled to get good photos of urine infiltration soakpits or pipes for the GIZ technology review. So if anyone has additional ones to share please upload them to the SuSanA flickr database (please send them to This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it )

Regards,
Elisabeth


*
More information about the UDDTs and urine infiltration in Ecuador by Chris Canaday is here on the forum:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-uri...iew-on-uddts-ecuador

and
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-uri...ourself-uddt-ecuador

He also has lots of materials about UDDTs in Spanish.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 20 Jul 2015 08:23:38 +0000
Experiences with soak pits for urine management - by: biscarlos http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/14244-experiences-with-soak-pits-for-urine-management#14244 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/14244-experiences-with-soak-pits-for-urine-management#14244
I need to know information about the use of soak pits for infiltrate the source-separated urine in the soil. If one of you can help me with this it would be helpful to our investigation about UDDT in Chile

Thanks to all!

Best Regards]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 20 Jul 2015 02:55:42 +0000
An Overview of SOIL's Iterative UD Household Toilet Design Process in Haiti - by: SOILHaiti http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/14187-an-overview-of-soils-iterative-ud-household-toilet-design-process-in-haiti#14187 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/14187-an-overview-of-soils-iterative-ud-household-toilet-design-process-in-haiti#14187 www.oursoil.org/the-long-and-eventful-jo...ehold-toilet-design/

We believe that our design process might be interesting to other SuSanA readers as we've run trials of many different technologies and construction techniques and have 8 years of iterative design experience informing our current toilet model. We welcome your questions and comments!



Are you curious how we got from this clay pot toilet (very breakable and requiring imported products):


To this beautiful ferro-cement toilet built locally for less than $30 USD:


Read all about it on the SOIL blog at: www.oursoil.org/the-long-and-eventful-jo...ehold-toilet-design/

Learn more about SOIL at www.oursoil.org
Contact us directly at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
And join the conversation on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram @SOILHaiti]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 14 Jul 2015 18:12:10 +0000
Re: Successful experiences on a good working service for UDDT / Ecosan system in urban area? - by: DavidAlan http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13784 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13784 Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 20 Jun 2015 19:15:21 +0000 Re: Successful experiences on a good working service for UDDT / Ecosan system in urban area? - by: Florent http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13772 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13772 and thanks for your feedback!
I think we're at the same step than kwhitehouse about our project in Gabon...
I already get knowledge about soil action in haiti due to contact with a french ngo named CEFREPAD whose get involved in a similar project still at study level...
If you get reports or external evaluation about soil project and own service, I will be very interested.

Cheers]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 19 Jun 2015 14:29:21 +0000
Re: Successful experiences on a good working service for UDDT / Ecosan system in urban area? - by: shannonmearlsmith http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13767 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13767
I'm not quite sure if it's what you are looking for, but SOIL could be an interesting case study for you to look at, as we have an EcoSan service that includes over 400 households in urban and peri-urban Haiti.

www.oursoil.org]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 19 Jun 2015 13:19:31 +0000
Re: Successful experiences on a good working service for UDDT / Ecosan system in urban area? - by: kwhitehouse http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13759 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13759
I am Kenya Enterprise Lead for WSUP and we are literally about to pilot an ECOSAN service model in Kenya next month. We have built the service concept from a year of research monitoring consumer needs, behaviours, availability, use and misuse of local santiation infrastructure, and vetted all our concepts through provisional financial modelling and willingness to pay surveys. Happy to talk about our findings in a few months but happy to discuss your ideas sooner and bounce ideas off each other.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 18 Jun 2015 20:45:12 +0000
Re: Health risks in connections with using UDDTs - example of eThekwini in South Africa - by: neilmacleod http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12708-health-risks-in-connections-with-using-uddts-example-of-ethekwini-in-south-africa?limit=12&start=12#13725 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12708-health-risks-in-connections-with-using-uddts-example-of-ethekwini-in-south-africa?limit=12&start=12#13725
I can understand why open defecation is preferred to a pit toilet. Again, using our research, customers want a toilet that is clean, safe to use, well lit to be able to read in it and that has no bad smells. Most dry toilet options have a direct opening to the fecal matter below and so have to be designed without windows so the flies do not enter the toilet building but fly up the chimney and get trapped by the mesh over the top of the chimney.

That is why I am so supportive of any innovation that does away with this direct connection to the pit below as it will allow windows to be installed in all toilet structures and also prevent the smells from entering the toilet room.

If I had to choose between the fresh outdoors or a stinking dark place, I know what I would choose.

As for the relevance of the Durban experiences to India, you are correct in saying that I have not been exposed to rural India. What I can say though is that piped sewerage systems connected to traditional sewage treatment works will be unaffordable in rural areas of India, just as they are in South Africa. So this means decentralised options are the only way to go until house densities reach a tipping point, where the cost of a piped system is equal to or lower than a decentralised solution (about USD1500 per family connected to sewer in South Africa). So if dry sanitation options are not acceptable, such as where users are washers and not wipers, then a low volume pour flush option would be preferable to a conventional flush toilet. Considering that 400 square metres of open land surface is needed to evapotranspire 200 litres of water a day in Durban soils, this means the density of development has to be fairly low. This also assumes a sufficiently low water table.

The work of the Gates Foundation and their partners offers the best hope of a radical new solution to toilets for the poor (and ultimately the rest of us) as far as I am concerned. We need options that use little or no water but are clean, well lit, safe to use and odourless.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 17 Jun 2015 11:19:48 +0000
Health risks in connections with using UDDTs - example of eThekwini in South Africa - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12708-health-risks-in-connections-with-using-uddts-example-of-ethekwini-in-south-africa?limit=12&start=12#13718 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12708-health-risks-in-connections-with-using-uddts-example-of-ethekwini-in-south-africa?limit=12&start=12#13718
I would like to come back to something that Neil Macleod said in this thread (on page 1) on 10 April (see here):

EWS is a customer driven organisation and so when market surveys showed an 80+% usage rate and a 35% acceptance rate,


What is the definition of "acceptance rate"? I would have thought if someone doesn't accept a toilet then they also don't use it, and therefore accpetance rate and usage rate would be the same?

Or have you managed to convince people to use the UDDTs even though they do not like/accept them? This is interesting as over time the usage might stay the same but the acceptance might go up when people get used to it (or the opposite may happen as they more and more dislike the toilet, the older it gets).

Have you seen any trends in the data there?

And I think you have also done some work in India, right? We are having discussions about the open defecation enigma in India in various places on the forum, e.g. recently here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/71-beh...-so-rampant-in-india

Do you have any advice for Indian colleagues who work in rural areas (or have you only worked in urban areas in India?) with respect to increasing acceptance and usage rates of people who initially might not "like" dry toilets? Or is the situation so different that parallels are impossible to draw.

From the discussion thread about rural India that I linked to above, it seemed that rural Indians prefer open defecation to a basic toilet (pit latrine) so that you get the situation of either no toilet or quite a "good" toilet (almost like a flush toilet) but nothing in between (i.e. therefore also no UDDTs if that's regarded as an "in between" toilet).

I guess one unique thing about the peri-urban areas of Durban is that they still fall under the responsibility of the municipality and EWS (eThekwini Water and Sanitation) even though it is quite far away from the central business district and from the sewered areas. This is probably a blessing in disguise that the arm of the municipality reaches out so far...

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 16 Jun 2015 13:57:47 +0000
Re: Why did the World's biggest eco-toilet scheme fail? - by: cecile http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13707 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13707 Regarde du côté du CREPA et de l'Afrique du sud (gros projet d'UDDT avec collecte de la municipalité à eThekwini je crois), il y a un projet à San Fernando La Union aux Philippines où la vidange des fosses est collective et aussi Soil en Haiti ? Quelques pistes ...

Cécile


+++++++
Google Translate:

Florent,
Look toward CREPA and South Africa (large project with UDDT collection in eThekwini municipality I think), there is a project in San Fernando La Union in the Philippines where pit emptying is collective and also Soil in Haiti? Some ideas ...]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 15 Jun 2015 13:56:57 +0000
Re: Why did the World's biggest eco-toilet scheme fail? - by: Florent http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13703 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13703 oui Cécile, je crois que tu as bien résumé la situation. Les urines sont actuellement collectées et valorisées. Au-delà des données techniques pour un tel service et des différents aléas dues aux différents contextes d'infrastructures et d'exploitation, ma question est de pouvoir capitaliser sur de l'expérience existante sur la mise en place d'un tel service. Nous avons déjà établi pour un projet similaire tous les préalables à la mise en place d'un service mais qui est encore au statut d'avant projet détaillé sans capitalisation réelle de son fonctionnement. Cette expérience n'ayant pas encore permis de débuter la construction des 1000 toilettes UDDT (prévu à Port-Gentil au Gabon).
Je remercie au passage Scottchen pour ses apports.


Nous voudrions pouvoir apporter un conseil, en connaissance d'un fonctionnement réel d'un service qui est toujours en fonctionnement (après plusieurs années) et sans aide extérieure (financière ou technique) plutôt que de baser notre conseil sur de l'avant projet détaillé basé sur des études préalables incluant des business plans aussi pertinent soient-ils....

Merci de vos retours.

A+



Hello everyone,
Cécile yes, I think you summed it up. The urine is being collected and valued. Beyond the technical data for such a service and different hazards due to various infrastructure and operational contexts, my question is to capitalize on existing experience of the establishment of such a service. We have already established a similar project for all the prerequisites for the establishment of a service but is still the status of detailed design without actual funding operation. This experience has not yet allowed to start construction of the 1,000 UDD toilets (expected in Port-Gentil in Gabon).
Thank Scottchen to pass for his contributions.

We would like to give advice, and knowledge of a real operation of a service which is still in operation (after several years) and without external assistance (financial or technical) rather than base our advice on the detailed design based on previous studies including business plans as relevant as they are ....

Thank you for your feedback.

A +]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 15 Jun 2015 13:19:37 +0000
Re: Why did the World's biggest eco-toilet scheme fail? - by: scottchen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13695 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13695 Use the NGO money to buy a truck for a volunteer to collect and use the urine and faeces as the fertilizer grwoing vegetables..selling them to the local people. Then, he can surive after the NGO departure.
best wishes
Scott]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sun, 14 Jun 2015 15:23:44 +0000
Re: Why did the World's biggest eco-toilet scheme fail? - by: scottchen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13694 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13694 The major cause of the failure is that we do not have a national policy on the sustainable sanitation.We are a country controlled by the cenratral governments which just issued 2015-2030 National Sustainaible Agriculture Plan without mentioning the sanitation at all.
As I pointed out in the Ordos project conference, few Chinese like the family plan which is much stinkier than the toilet smell..but all of are following it.
The new top leaders only talk about the sustainable, green, circular,low-carbon economy..without mentioning the toilet.
best wishes
Scott]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sun, 14 Jun 2015 15:11:56 +0000
Re: Why did the World's biggest eco-toilet scheme fail? - by: cecile http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13693 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/13630-successful-experiences-on-a-good-working-service-for-uddt--ecosan-system-in-urban-area?limit=12&start=12#13693
If I understand well, the project Florent is talking about, completed the construction of 400 UDDT toilet for domestic use (houses) and they set up a collective service to empty the pits, transport and treat (compost? co-compost ?)faeces+ash. Now the service is effectively running because it is supported by an international NGO. They are preparing a business plan to transfer the service (pit emptying - transport - composting, provision of ash or other material) to a local organisation. This means no more financial and organisational support from the NGO. Florent is looking for successful example of business scheme where a local organisation proposes this service and is financially sustainable (i.e. how much is paid per household, eventually subsidies from the municipality ?, how to market and get benefits from compost selling)...
Do I understand right Florent ?

(What becomes of the urine in your system ? Is it infiltrated in the ground or collected and reused as well ?)

Cécile]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sun, 14 Jun 2015 11:29:57 +0000