SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Wed, 27 Jul 2016 01:50:15 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: CompostEra http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18474 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18474 The solid end product however, is more unpredictable concerning the potential pathogen content unless it has been heat sterilized for some considering time (days) and considerable temperature (80°C). This is why the CompostEra does not make a recommendation regarding the solids unless it has been heat sterilized either on- or off-site. But the best policy is to let it shrink ... (there is no hurry to take it out when there is room in the tank) No one can say for sure that the endproducts are 100% safe unless, again, they have been heat sterilized.
I don't know if we need a new term or not but the understanding of the process needs to be expanded. When the municipal standard (which is sewer and sewage treatment is performed according to the convention, it is all but safe for health and the environment and this is one of great dilemmas when the norm is declared safe. We still do not know so new understanding and treatment recommendations are needed.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 23 Jul 2016 09:15:34 +0000
Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18471 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18471 Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 22 Jul 2016 15:12:01 +0000 Reply: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: aksingh http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18455 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18455
Excreta derived compost generated in single or twin pit honey comb underground pits are not very popular in India. It gives assess to sanitation but household owner is not well aware about it. Focus is more on construction to scale up sanitation coverage. In urban areas it is connected to sewer and in rural areas cleaning pits/taking out decomposed material is still taboo and social issue.
Whether it is called with new name or continued with existing one the issues should be tackled socially through strong advocacy professionally.

It is also noticed that composting of the fecal material also depends on geo-climatic and physiography of the sites/zones. The production and its utilistion has not yet been seriously attempted.

thanks

aksingh
India]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 20 Jul 2016 10:42:38 +0000
Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: biosanita http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18453 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18453
I made this list of related words while thinking about it.

dry
stabilized / stable
treated
converted
diverted
separated
solids
matter
output
byproduct
conditioner
soil, silt, gravel, lime
reduced risk
neutralized / neutral
denatured

What do you think about "precompost" or "presoil"?

It's not soil and it's not compost, but the product of a UDDT will sooner or later turn into one of those things. That's what we're looking for through sustainable sanitation, right?

I think the term would sound sweet enough at the ears of the uninitiated potential users of UDDTs, and also appeal the propspecting buyers of the matter itself. Like this: 'A UDDT produces dry precompost that can be used as soil amendment' or 'Human precompost is a nutrient-rich fertilizer".]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 19 Jul 2016 22:08:25 +0000
How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: DrBates http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18447 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18447
I will listen to the video though.

The concept categorically does make sense…..the end product is a “resource that comes from humans”]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sun, 17 Jul 2016 15:54:25 +0000
Re: How should we call the excreta-derived product of a composting toilet or a UDDT? Do we need a new term? - by: KaiMikkel http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18446 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/12719-how-should-we-call-the-excreta-derived-product-of-a-composting-toilet-or-a-uddt-do-we-need-a-new-term?limit=12&start=72#18446 and the finished end-product (post-treatment) of dry ecological toilets, and that term is "human resource". Finally, a positive meaning for the term "human resources"!

And, for the segregated end-product, how about "liquid human resource" and "solid human resource"? I was in the midst of listening to the "poopcast" produced by Shawn Shafner that features Sasha Kramer and Kory Russel (available here and had reached the point in the show when the idea of referring to and contextualizing human excreta as "ore" is brought up. "Ore" is good but I think "human resource" might be even better. For posterity....]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 16 Jul 2016 20:59:16 +0000
Re: Evolution of the EarthAuger UDDT (a hybrid composting and urine diverting dry toilet) - in-field demonstrations in India, Ghana, South Africa and other countries - by: chuckhenry http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#18162 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#18162
The Oxfam effort is being led by Moussa Seck, Critical Practices local partner is Seydou Niang of University Cheikh Anta Diop in Dakar.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sun, 05 Jun 2016 03:58:01 +0000
Re: Evolution of the EarthAuger UDDT (a hybrid composting and urine diverting dry toilet) - in-field demonstrations in India, Ghana, South Africa and other countries - by: chuckhenry http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#18161 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#18161 Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 04 Jun 2016 04:42:15 +0000 Re: Parameters for testing the health safety status of ecosan dehydrated faeces for reuse or disposal? - by: kharallaxman http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16398-experiences-with-uddts-in-nicaragua-and-otji-toilets?limit=12&start=12#18025 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16398-experiences-with-uddts-in-nicaragua-and-otji-toilets?limit=12&start=12#18025
To deal with the problem of water getting inside UDDT, I have made this design. In it, the lower two inches of the UDDT vault is like the sand and gravel part of an unplanted faecal sludge drying bed. The excess free water here is supposed to percolate down to the bottom which could then be drained out by opening the washout. Would appreciate in case you may have any remarks.

Regards, Laxman]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 16 May 2016 10:41:55 +0000
Re: Evolution of the EarthAuger UDDT (a hybrid composting and urine diverting dry toilet) - in-field demonstrations in India, Ghana, South Africa and other countries - by: chuckhenry http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17863 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17863
How efficient have the NGOs been so far? There appears to be a move towards a market-based approach from the donor one of the past. Does this help bring in the private industry? Protection of technologies from copying has always been a pertinent issue – both from simple recovery of investment and also from assurance that copied products are of similar quality and not give a bad name to the original.

And in reply to Kris: You asked “which partners?“ - I meant commercialization partners that can take this from an NGO-driven activity (or a not-for profit company activity) to scale, where some profit would be made and then re-invested in the company.


+++++++++++

* Added by moderator: the suggested general thread has now been started here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/167-ma...the-ngos-been-so-far
It has the topic "Is our approach to instituting sanitation programs broken? How efficient have the NGOs been so far?"]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 30 Apr 2016 14:04:04 +0000
Re: Evolution of the EarthAuger UDDT (a hybrid composting and urine diverting dry toilet) - in-field demonstrations in India, Ghana, South Africa and other countries - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17825 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17825 chuckhenry wrote:
One of the first questions that we've had from potential partners - now in four countries - has been whether or not we have patented our product. And it was at their strong recommendation that we do so, and I'm assuming it was not for our protection but theirs!


With partners you mean what exactly? I assume they were mainly concerned that this might be infringing someone else's patent and thus if you have a patent for it it's an easy way for them to avoid this possible risk as this is something the patent office is usually checking first?

However even if there isn't a previous existing patent I am not sure if your patent is really valid, as I am relatively sure there is "prior art" on this one with very similar latrines build and installed in South Africa (?) a decade ago or so. I think we had some pictures of those here on the forum some time ago. *

So my guess (I am not a lawyer though) would be that if someone was to challenge your patent in court it would not hold. But of course this doesn't (and shouldn't) stop you from perusing this nice design further!


* See this post on the forum (by Christoph Platzer from 13 April 2013): forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-uri...tes-on-progress#4141
(added by moderator)]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 27 Apr 2016 06:24:59 +0000
Re: Evolution of the EarthAuger UDDT (a hybrid composting and urine diverting dry toilet) - in-field demonstrations in India, Ghana, South Africa and other countries - by: chuckhenry http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17818 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17818
In response to "...do you find it immoral for companies to make a profit when they're serving the poor?", I have to laugh! If at some point the the future we actually MAKE a profit (I've 15 years as a 'negative-profit company!), then my dream is to return this to the industry to continue to improve our product (which includes figuring out ways to decrease the price even further), fund some graduate students in sanitation and do some of our own projects. I'm not holding my breath!]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 26 Apr 2016 14:49:29 +0000
Re: Evolution of the EarthAuger UDDT (a hybrid composting and urine diverting dry toilet) - in-field demonstrations in India, Ghana, South Africa and other countries - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17811 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17811
Just to clarify about the open access policy of the BMGF (which I think is wonderful as far as publications are concerned): It only refers to published information.

See opening paragraph (www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Gene...n/Open-Access-Policy):

The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation is committed to information sharing and transparency. We believe that published research resulting from our funding should be promptly and broadly disseminated. We have adopted an Open Access policy that enables the unrestricted access and reuse of all peer-reviewed published research funded, in whole or in part, by the foundation, including any underlying data sets.


I had a similar question to Alison Parker (another grantee), and posted what I found out about it here in January:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-pr...2&start=36#16569

(this link should take you to my post from 15 January 2016 on Page 4 of the thread; some browsers take you to the start of the thread though)

This was the main point:

This thing about IP protection is something we've talked about on the forum quite a bit. It seems counter-intuitive at first but Alison explained to me:
"Have you been following the STEP programme? They talked a lot about protecting IP in the introductory webinar. They talked to a lot of potential commercialisation partners and realised that few of them would be keen to engage without protected IP."


I am not an expert on this but I think it boils down to the question, do you find it immoral for companies to make a profit when they're serving the poor? I don't, as long as it's not "exploitative". We have also discussed this here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-us...e-sanitation-problem

I am sure the final word has not yet been spoken.

But now I am also interested to hear what Chuck has to say about the patents on his innovative toilet.

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 26 Apr 2016 07:57:23 +0000
Re: Evolution of the EarthAuger UDDT (a hybrid composting and urine diverting dry toilet) - in-field demonstrations in India, Ghana, South Africa and other countries - by: ben http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17810 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17810
Congrats on the continuous improvement of your system and the tests all over the place.
I just had on question, all the BMGF grantees must put their techno on open access :

www.gatesfoundation.org/How-We-Work/Gene...n/Open-Access-Policy

So how did you manage to create a patent for it ? And why did you do it ? Do you think it's compatible with development and relief actions.

Thanks,

Best]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 26 Apr 2016 06:38:21 +0000
Re: Evolution of the EarthAuger UDDT (a hybrid composting and urine diverting dry toilet) - in-field demonstrations in India, Ghana, South Africa and other countries - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17798 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/16409-evolution-of-the-earthauger-uddt-a-hybrid-composting-and-urine-diverting-dry-toilet-in-field-demonstrations-in-india-ghana-south-africa-and-other-countries?limit=12&start=24#17798 his systems, i.e. here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/205-ve...2&start=12#17796

(go to Page 2 on 25 April if the link doesn't take you to the right point in the thread)

Clint contrasted his system with the Earth Auger and started out with

Actually, the FIRST flushing toilet patent was for an earth flushing toilet instead of water flushing toilet.

Why the change from earth, which would have been beneficial, to water, I assume was based upon the knowledge levels at that time to "get it out of here BECAUSE IT IS BAD"! Based upon that technological base of knowledge AT THAT TIME, they used and we continue to use copious amounts of water to quell the odor immediately and then use more water to remove the materials faster to let someone else deal with them because they are BAD!


Please head over to the other thread if you have comments for Clint.

(as his post was not directly about the Earth Auger toilet, I felt it was "tidier" to move it to the other thread)

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Mon, 25 Apr 2016 05:34:40 +0000