SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Fri, 01 Aug 2014 05:45:47 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9499 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9499
Recycling of cover material is imminently practical, as no solids need to be transported long distance, to or fro, with who knows what vehicle and who knows what petroleum (or donkey power). It also inoculates the new feces with at least some of the same soil microbes that broke down the feces of the previous cycle. If we have reliable treatment (via heat, sun, thermophilic composting and/or long storage), no significant amounts of pathogenic microbes will remain and there is minimal health risk. Remember that any system can be used incorrectly (like having flush toilets dump straight into rivers where people swim and drink).

In my experience, recycled cover material controls smell and flies much better than the mix of sawdust and ashes that we used before. I am also convinced that this gets even better year after year, likely due to accumulation and natural selection of the soil microbe species present and potentially even some evolution, given that microbes evolve so quickly. See the scientific papers cited in this interview, for support for the idea that finished compost is one of the best materials for covering the smell of composting or landfills:
www.chekhovskalashnikov.com/human-waste-disposal/

The limitations to this recycling are mental and cultural, due to fecophobia (irrational fear of feces) and the illogical belief that "once feces, always feces" (and that the entire planet is gradually being converted to feces), since no one would identify its origin by smell, color or texture. In addition, it mostly consists of the original cover material, since the feces largely disintegrate, with their water evaporating out and their microbes killing each other until they occupy very little volume.

If users are concerned about pathogens still persisting, they will remember to wash their hands, which they currently often do not. The recycled cover material can also be added mechanically, avoiding direct contact with the user.

Yes, one can check "finished biosolids" for Ascaris Helminth eggs by looking at them with a microscope and these eggs are quite characteristic, with their golden color and bumpy surface. There are techniques to concentrate the eggs and increase one's chances of finding them, which is the subject of another current thread:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/26-hea...ce-a-better-way#8176

Last year, a student intern did one, isolated 3M PetriFilm trial for E. coli in the one-year-old recycled cover material by mixing it into water and applying the normal procedure for water samples. During incubation, 2 blue spots developed, indicating that 2 E. coli bacteria were present -- roughly an order of magnitude acceptable for a swimming pool. (I can look up more detail on this trial, if anyone likes.)

Update. I no longer mix wood ashes into the recycled cover material, since I do not want to kill the beneficial microbes. Also, most people do not have access to large amounts of ash ... which might best be used as fertilizer (including mixed with urine). I do mix in some 10% rice hulls, to replace lost volume through decomposition of the sawdust originally used as cover material and to increase air flow through the pile. (Other resistant, bulky, food-processing wastes, such as crushed egg shells, squash shells or manioc fibers, could also be excellent to mix into cover material.) I also sometimes replace lost volume with dry organic soil, in order to maintain a one-year detention time (longer than probably necessary, for peace of mind and further drying).

There is more detail on this recycling in previous posts:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fer...rt-of-processing#505

forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fer...=12&start=12#531

Thanks for asking, Stew. Keep sending any questions you may have.

Best wishes,
Chris Canaday]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 26 Jul 2014 11:20:15 +0000
Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: StewMartin http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9482 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9482
No, not involved in that India project. One Rotary WaSH project in India, more often in Indonesia and CenAm, one is percolating in Tanzania.

I've followed some of your posts here, viewed website and video ... very informative!

Idea of wax or sealant on bamboo is interesting; might extend life 6-12+ months. The villagers came up with the idea of gedek on bamboo frames; but gedek (aka kedek) is like dried palm fronds, will rot too quickly. We are now looking for the woven plastic bags. No PET beverage bottles in Sumba villages; quite primitive rural area, as much or more so than sub-Sahara.

I see you use dried humus (re-purpose) to be the drying carbonaceous material for next round of feces; how does that work? As well as firepit ash, sawdust, minced leaves?

I read lots on 6-12+ months for dehydration, some speculation on shorter periods ... but being a biologist, how does one really test to verify helminth egg inactivation? Looking a samples under microscope doesn't tell, does it?
And have you used 3M Petrifilm on a suspension made from the material to count e.coli or coliform CFU's?

Stew]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 24 Jul 2014 22:11:52 +0000
Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9473 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9473
Thanks for the update. Is the Rotary also involved in Lucas's project in India? Please tell us more about yourself and the advances of the project.

Woven, polypropylene sacks are usually very easy to get, as they are commonly used for rice, flour, sugar, chemical fertilizers, etc. Used sacks here in Ecuador can cost as little as US$ 0.10. (I suggest asking to buy these from the local bakery.) These sacks are also often used to dispose of garbage, so they may be rescued by dumping their contents orderly into the garbage ... and given what we will be putting into them, they do not need to be very clean.

Weaving each container seems too laborious, especially if they will rot in use. It may be interesting to weave a basket made from non-biodegradable strips cut spirally from PET beverage bottles to hold the sack open.

Wax may be useful to protect biodegradable basket materials, but I would suggest that the container should best not be water-proof or air-tight, to allow excess liquids to drain into the soil under the toilet (or in some other organized way) thus reducing the production of odors and to allow oxygen to filter into the pile of feces to allow for normal, aerobic decomposition.

Is Gedek a type of bamboo?

Best wishes,
Chris]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 24 Jul 2014 13:12:55 +0000
Re: Non-plastic removable container for UDDT (for project in Southern India) - by: StewMartin http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9466 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7429-non-plastic-removable-container-for-uddt-for-project-in-southern-india?limit=12&start=12#9466
Not sure if this thread has gone dormant. But to answer your question, our first effort at local material-produced containers will be bamboo frame with woven split bamboo to make the basket. We think some can make themselves, others will have to barter or purchase (at low cost). Still working out the quantity of containers in a vault of the UDDT. Yes, they will eventually rot; but much less than the woven gedek, alternative material. We're looking into plastic woven bags; not yet sourced.]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 24 Jul 2014 04:55:33 +0000
Re: Female genital mutilation and the use of UD toilets - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9178 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9178
Thanks for your post. This might well be the very first time that someone writes on the internet about women who have undergone female genital mutilation using urine-diverting dry toilets and their difficulties with it (as UDDTs are till rare, and writing about practical, toilet-related FGM issues is also rare).

Just a question of clarification (and I am so glad that these Somali women trust you sufficiently to speak about this problem with you! That's a good sign for your focus group work):

Urine diversion is most tricky (also for non-cut women) when you urinate and defecate "at the same time" (I put this in quotation marks because in my experience there is nevertheless a time delay of a second or two, during which time one can slightly move forwards or backwards to hit the right hole). I can very well imagine that cut women could have trouble with this, because their urine comes out so slowly.

But one only defecates once per day or even less frequently if one is not getting enough food (unless you have diarrhoea then of course it would be more often).
If we assume that defecation is only once per day, then perhaps one has to live with the fact that on that occasion once per day some urine will enter the faeces hole. I don't think this would make the toilet fail, i.e. become too wet and smelly (add more sawdust? In fact what cover material are you adding if any?).

But on all the other occasions per day (4 times? 5 times?) when one only urinates, then aiming for the urination hole should work? Or would you say that the urination section is too small for such cut women? That would mean that they also night have trouble aiming for the hole of a conventional pit latrine?

It would be great if you could clarify this.

Just for those that don't know, I think you are talking about this type of toilet, right?:





The work with these MoSan toilets in Kenya is described in this thread:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mob...an-now-in-kenya#5182

Kind regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 01 Jul 2014 11:56:40 +0000
Reply: UDT - by: Bhaskar http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7881-ecosan-toilet-posters-for-school-catholic-diocese-of-bungoma-water-program-located-in-western-parts-of-kenya-and-oam-issues?limit=12&start=12#9152 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7881-ecosan-toilet-posters-for-school-catholic-diocese-of-bungoma-water-program-located-in-western-parts-of-kenya-and-oam-issues?limit=12&start=12#9152
4. What do you need to add value to harvested urine

Use it to grow fish.

5. What is the mineral distribution in the diluted urine (1 urine:3 water)

The average nutrient content of urine is Nitrogen - 5 g per person per day and Phosphate - 0.5 g per person per day.

6. How does one arrive at the market value of the added value of both human waste respectively.

We can grow Diatoms upto 12 times the N content, i.e., 60 g per person using the toilet per day. This would increase fish weight by 6 grams per day.

If fish are harvested at 1 kg weight and sold for Rs 100 per kg, the income would be at least Rs 200 per user per year. The actual income is more since fish feces too is recycled in the ponds ( 60 g - 6 g mentioned above ).

Regards

Bhaskar]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sun, 29 Jun 2014 08:29:21 +0000
UDT - by: omulama http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7881-ecosan-toilet-posters-for-school-catholic-diocese-of-bungoma-water-program-located-in-western-parts-of-kenya-and-oam-issues?limit=12&start=12#9151 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7881-ecosan-toilet-posters-for-school-catholic-diocese-of-bungoma-water-program-located-in-western-parts-of-kenya-and-oam-issues?limit=12&start=12#9151 [Start of Page 2 of the discussion thread]


After constructing six UDT for St. Monica girls secondary school we went there for a revisit and realized that most of the stool chambers are full. They are using the second chambers. This means that very soon they will be also full. The headmistress asked us who will be responsible for emptying them.

We concluded that though we trained them on O&M and she knows how to empty she is not ready for harvesting the manure. I have realised that there is a need to solve this gap economical. Therefore kindly assist me answer the following and I will make money out of this need.

1. What do you need for preparation of decomposed stool before emptying the vaults
2. What do you need when you want to add value to the decomposed stool
3. What is the mineral distribution in decomposed stool
4. What do you need to add value to harvested urine
5. What is the mineral distribution in the diluted urine (1 urine:3 water)
6. How does one arrive at the market value of the added value of both human waste respectively.

My regards]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 28 Jun 2014 14:10:12 +0000
Re: Female genital mutilation and the use of UD toilets - by: Ewoods http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9125 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9125
Sanivation is wrapping up a pilot sanitation pilot in Kakuma refugee camp with CDC and NRC. In our design, we use mobile, dry, urine diverting toilets. One of our target groups is Somali households. We have encountered some users that say due to their FGM they are not able to urine divert. That it is physically impossible, not just uncomfortable or new. We still do not know much about this and will be trying to collect more data during our Focus Group Discussions. We will share our findings once we are able.

I am wondering if anyone has encountered this before- the difficulty for women with FGM to use urine diverting toilets. Specifically type 3 FGM common in Somalia.

-Emily Woods
co-founder of Sanivation]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 27 Jun 2014 12:12:24 +0000
Re: Female genital mutilation and the use of UD toilets - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9060 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9060
Sorry, you misunderstood me a little bit here. I do think that the issue of FGM (female genitale mutilation) - while to some extent removed from sanitation - does have a "place" on this forum, which is why I posted about it in connection with menstrual hygiene management. As we discussed in that other thread on the forum, there are common elements between FGM and sanitation which is being such a massive taboo topic, violence against women, more difficult for the women. See here:
www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/24...-links-to-sanitation

But my question to Dan was (and I hope he will reply quite soon): why did you bring it up in the context of urine diversion? This is what I don't understand.

And I do agree with you that occasionally one has to draw the line when topics go too far beyond sanitation (in the case of FGM, however, it is still sufficiently closely connected, for the reasons described in the thread linked to above).

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 24 Jun 2014 21:33:42 +0000
Re: Female genital mutilation and the use of UD toilets - by: Ecogo http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9055 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9055 As disastrous as FGM is, its issues are not aligned with the purpose of Susana. There are many disastrous situations in this world, (including torture, financial ruin, toxic toys, etc, and fortunately, there are appropriate forums for all of them.]]> Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Tue, 24 Jun 2014 15:35:55 +0000 Re: Female genital mutilation and the use of UD toilets - by: mwaniki http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9020 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9020
I would like to add some little information on what I know about FGM. This is a disgusting and backward tradition and is being fought from all fronts by the Government, the communities and religious leaders here in Kenya. In fact, the practitioners now risk long jail terms and a hefty fines if caught in the act. The facts are, we maybe way ahead in eradicating this practice in comparison with other countries in Europe and the North America where the Muslim communities have immigrated and the tradition is getting carried out secretly. Again, there are now safe houses within the counties in Kenya for girls who run away from home when they sense what their parents are up to.

At the moment the FGM is being practiced in remote rural communities who are still holding on to customary traditions which have no place in this century. So when we talk about UDTs in these areas of the country is tantamount to talking of a mansion in the middle of the Amazon forest.

Let us forget about the cost.When unfortunate cases of this nature take place, the chances of a reconstructive surgery are very slim given that the dispensaries are many kilometers away and may not have the facilities to conduct operations of this magnitude to save the victim. Mind you, quite a number of deaths have been reported after FGMs as a result of loss of blood and infection due to the unhygienic approach from the crude instruments of trade.

It is a sad affair that women don’t have total protection they deserve in many places and they have to undergo such abuse and permanent disfigurement and even death.

Kind regards / Mwaniki]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 21 Jun 2014 22:21:36 +0000
Re: Female genital mutilation and the use of UD toilets - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9014 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9014
I am wondering what the background to your question is, i.e. what are you getting at?
Are you expecting to see any difference compared to use of conventional toilets?
From what I gathered, one important issue here is the extremely long time it takes to empty one's bladder when the genital cutting has been severe, as the urine only comes out drop by drop almost (20 minutes each time!?). So more toilets per family or more cubicles per shared toilet block would be required.

I wonder how much it costs to have that reconstructive surgery done. Probably beyond the reach of most affected women? (let alone the cultural barriers of course)

Oh, I just see you opened a new thread rather than continuing the existing thread on female gentital mutilation (FGM) which is here on the forum:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/24-men...-links-to-sanitation
(on purpose? Maybe that thread should be moved out of the MHM category into the general health category?)


Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Sat, 21 Jun 2014 14:44:30 +0000
Female genital mutilation and the use of urine diverting toilets (case of Kenya, refugee camps) - by: campbelldb http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9001 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/9001-female-genital-mutilation-and-the-use-of-urine-diverting-toilets-case-of-kenya-refugee-camps#9001 Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Thu, 19 Jun 2014 18:12:14 +0000 Re: Uridan urinal for females - Re: Female urinal tested in Europe - by: ambaya http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/926-female-urinal-tested-in-europe#8632 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/926-female-urinal-tested-in-europe#8632
I thank you. So a technology can only develop if it is market driven. I wonder whether women who be interested to have urinals fitted in office buildings and other public places? That would require a complete shift in toilet habit if they did. Maybe some violation of privacy?...

Regards,

André]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Fri, 16 May 2014 01:42:00 +0000
Re: Replication challenges with urine-diverting dry toilets (UDDTs) in Uganda - by: Juergen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7715-replication-challenges-with-urine-diverting-dry-toilets-uddts-in-uganda?limit=12&start=12#8615 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/34-urine-diversion-systems-includes-uddt-and-ud-flush-toilet/7715-replication-challenges-with-urine-diverting-dry-toilets-uddts-in-uganda?limit=12&start=12#8615
thanks for your contribution; just a few remarks:

Faecophobia is not an African problem, I found it in Asia (India, Nepal, Sri Lanka), too. In these countries, anything else but a pour-flush latrine wouldn't be acceptable, even in the drier regions - and there is water enough for flushing, since it's just a few litres which are used per flushing. That's nothing if compared to irrigation. Over large areas in Uganda, this might be viable, too. Well arranged wetlands are certainly a way of processing the sludge and some convenient use for using it afterwards may be found.

Anyway, the observation made about linking the toilet directly to the house and making it well aerated, lighted and roomy is a very good idea; in the Far Western Development Region of Nepal, exactly this made a failed project successful in the end, and the use of toilets became popular. As it turned out, the mere fact of being or feeling observed when walking to the toilet built outside the house had hindered many users -particularly women and girls- to use these toilets; second reason for not using it was the often offending smell and flies inside the toilets (initially dry toilets), which was dealt with through improved ventilation (pipe and windows) and the siphons keeping flies back in the pits.

Best regards,

Jürgen]]>
Urine diversion systems (includes UDDT and UD flush toilet) Wed, 14 May 2014 08:44:18 +0000