Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets
(1 viewing) (1) Guest
UDDT stands for urine diversion dehydration toilet. UD stands for urine diversion.
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 14 Dec 2013 12:24 #6708

  • JKMakowka
  • CONTACT
  • IWRM, WASH and rural development specialist
  • Posts: 415
  • Likes received: 105
  • Karma: 15
Featured User
Sep 2013
Not sure were, but a while ago I also read about using an floating oil layer as a smell stop, e.g. similar idea to the ball valve but with oil. It could probably be combined with the all the way to the bottom pipe idea Elizabeth posted above.
Krischan Makowka
Technical Adviser at the Uganda Water and Sanitation NGO Network (UWASNET)
www.uwasnet.org

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 16 Dec 2013 09:52 #6720

  • kudert
  • CONTACT
  • My research focus is on resource recovery from source-separated waste streams.
  • Posts: 15
  • Likes received: 6
  • Karma: 4
Hi Julius

Floating organic liquids were used by waterless urinal companies for years. Recently, many of them have changed to other types of smell stop, for example Ernst, a company, which was mentioned by Elizabeth above.

In public toilets, one of the problem is that the oil layer can easily be flushed away with cleaning water.

I assume that the system is not well suited for UDDTs with urine tanks, because the organic liquid would have to be replaced everytime, when the tank is emptied. Furthermore, a lot of liquid would have to be used because of the large surface.

Kai
Swiss Federal Institute of Aquatic Science and Technology (Eawag)
Process Engineering
Dübendorf, Switzerland

Recover nutrients: www.vuna.ch
Fresh off the press: Source Separation and Decentralization for Wastewater Management
The following user(s) like this post: JKMakowka

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 16 Dec 2013 10:32 #6722

  • JKMakowka
  • CONTACT
  • IWRM, WASH and rural development specialist
  • Posts: 415
  • Likes received: 105
  • Karma: 15
Featured User
Sep 2013
Hello Kai,

Ahh good to know that it is a proven technology. However I don't see that your concerns apply to the specific case I mentioned, e.g. in a UDDT there is no flushing thus no huge loss of oil during normal operation and with the mentioned down-pipe to minimize the surface area not much oil is needed. Alternatively some sort of siphon could also be used to minimize the surface area.

Edit: Ahh I should read more carefully: cleaning water... hmm yes that is probably an issue, but at least for the small mobile toilet Mona is working on that should be ok regardless. Besides, in a urine-reuse UDDT you would usually not want that much water in your urine storage either.

Of course it would need to be replaced when the tank is changed and probably replenished during normal use also from time to time, but I don't think that is an issue in a normal household where cooking oil (even old one) can be used.

At least I assume normal cooking oil mostly blocks the degassing of the smelly NH4/NH3+ (which as a polar substance dissolves well in water, but not so well in oil), or are those "floating organic liquids" of a special composition?
Krischan Makowka
Technical Adviser at the Uganda Water and Sanitation NGO Network (UWASNET)
www.uwasnet.org
Last Edit: 16 Dec 2013 10:40 by JKMakowka.

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 17 Dec 2013 12:19 #6735

  • muench
  • CONTACT
  • Moderator
  • Freelance consultant (former roles: program manager, lecturer, process engineer)
  • Posts: 681
  • Likes received: 219
  • Karma: 19
This reminded me of a video that I once made with my students at UNESCO-IHE in Delft six years ago where I explain how the blocking fluid in a water less urinal (from Uridan from Denmark) works:



In the video, I also show the Keramag rubber tube valve which is mentioned above and show how to take it out, clean it and re-insert it.

Amazing: Six years on, and the video is still relevant (and a bit embarrassing for me ) - the topics still remain the same...
Dr. Elisabeth von Muench
Independent consultant
Frankfurt, Germany
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Twitter: @EvMuench
Website: www.ostella.de
Member of SuSanA (www.susana.org)
Last Edit: 17 Dec 2013 12:20 by muench.
The following user(s) like this post: Mona

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 18 Dec 2013 17:10 #6748

  • Mona
  • CONTACT
  • Industrial designer with great interest in social innovations. Together with GIZ I designed the MoSan household toilet. Currently based in Zurich.
  • Posts: 49
  • Likes received: 25
  • Karma: 6
Dear Julius, actually this seems to be the final price by Keramag. But thanks to Bernhard I found this valve by CULU for 17,95€. www.culu.eu/zubehoer/geruchsverschluss-fuer-wasserlose-urinale/

My experience with the ping-pong ball was very positive as well. People in Kenya reported that the only time when smell occurred was during the replacement process of toilet containers.

I really like the idea to solve the smell problem with the urine pipe that goes all the way to the bottom of the urine canister. For MoSan it could make the emptying a bit more complicated if this pipe is connected to the seat (as it is on the SuSan unisex urinal), since the seat cant be placed evenly on the ground anymore. But one idea would be to have the pipe within the urine canister and the seat attaches to it. I will definitely think about this idea and try it out! Many thanks for this advice!

With the oil layer Im a bit concerned about the cleaning of the container and the direct reuse of urine? But it also seems worth a try.

Many thanks and all the best,
Mona
MoSan - Mobile Sanitation
is.gd/mobilesanitation
Last Edit: 18 Dec 2013 21:24 by muench.

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 20 Dec 2013 12:28 #6761

  • ande1978
  • CONTACT
  • Independent Ecological Sanitation Consultant in Kenya
  • Posts: 16
  • Likes received: 1
  • Karma: 1
I have tried and given away the eco-lily design with the light bulb several times here in Kenya since non-working or old light bulbs are usually available. To date, my friends like the idea and use them.
Ecological Sanitation Consultant
currently acting as Project Manager in Sanitation for "Offene Herzen e.V. - open hearts" in Chwele/Western Kenya

Master in Business Engineering
Longing for a detailed review of the UN MDG achievements after 2015 with rectifying post-MDG goals

Mobile: +254708617662
Location: Kiminini (Kitale), Kenya
The following user(s) like this post: AquaVerde

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 20 Dec 2013 13:52 #6762

  • AquaVerde
  • CONTACT
  • Posts: 308
  • Likes received: 48
  • Karma: 8
Dear ande1978, Anonymous?
Very clever idea to use old bulbs or similar, I am guessing at least a good smell reduction will happen.

I like your approach for simplicity and would like to know more about YOU. "...given away the eco-lily design..." Is it meaning this bulbs idea "eco-lily" been your own idea to start with?
All the Best
Detlef SCHWAGER
www.aqua-verde.de
Sanitation-Solutions without external energy
Low-Tech Solutions with High-Tech Effects
"Inspired by Circular Economy"
www.flickr.com/photos/aqua-verde/

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 20 Dec 2013 23:25 #6768

  • muench
  • CONTACT
  • Moderator
  • Freelance consultant (former roles: program manager, lecturer, process engineer)
  • Posts: 681
  • Likes received: 219
  • Karma: 19
Dear Detlef,

It is true that Andreas didn't sign with his name in the post above, but he is definetely "anonymous". Just click on his photo to the left of his post. This takes you to his forum profile page where you see his full name plus contact details. Furthermore, you can click on the tab called "posts" where you see his previous posts (the last 20). In one of them, he gives a detailed introduction of himself, see here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/35-bio...enyan-primary-school

I am just writing this in case others are not aware of this option either on how to access previous posts by a certain user.

As far as the eco-lily goes, no this "design" or this "name" was not invented by Andreas. I think it was actually the NGO Sudea in Ethiopia who came up with it or who coined this name, and this could be as far back as the late 1990s, or early 2000s.

Here is another photo of such a simple urinal from 2008:

Cheap waterless urinal in Burkina Faso by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr

I still have my doubts about such a light bulb or tabletennis ball arrangement in the longer term. I suspect that over time, urine stone deposits will build up on the funnel which would make the fit of the ball in the funnel less "snug". Also, the bulb could break and the ball could "disappear". But maybe I am totally wrong with this. Does anyone else have long-term experiences with such a simple odour seal?

Regards,
Elisabeth
Dr. Elisabeth von Muench
Independent consultant
Frankfurt, Germany
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it
Twitter: @EvMuench
Website: www.ostella.de
Member of SuSanA (www.susana.org)

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 21 Dec 2013 11:32 #6771

  • JKMakowka
  • CONTACT
  • IWRM, WASH and rural development specialist
  • Posts: 415
  • Likes received: 105
  • Karma: 15
Featured User
Sep 2013
I think the real problem is that those bulbs go rapidly out of style which energy saving fluorescent and LED ones. Here in Uganda you will actually have trouble even finding the old round ones in a store.
Krischan Makowka
Technical Adviser at the Uganda Water and Sanitation NGO Network (UWASNET)
www.uwasnet.org

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 02 Jan 2014 00:09 #6866

  • smecca
  • CONTACT
  • It is said that you are what you think about every day; if that's the case, then I am a toilet!
  • Posts: 23
  • Likes received: 5
  • Karma: 4
We have experimented with the "condom" trick as a differential valve; it works quite well - doesn't cost 30 Euros, is available everywhere, is open source, is readily replaceable and (some would say) is a reuse for the device.
Stephen Mecca, Ph.D.
Professor
Department Engineering-Physics-Systems
S-Lab
Providence College
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Visiting Scholar
Department of Computer Engineering
Faculty of Engineering Science
University of Ghana

Project coordinator at Ghana Sustainable Aid Project:
www.ghanasustainableaid.org/
The following user(s) like this post: CONSOLATE

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 05 Jan 2014 11:48 #6892

  • sjoerdnienhuys
  • CONTACT
  • Technical advisor on low-cost sanitation, worked for Aga Khan in the Himalayas, PUM in Asia,/Afica and Latin America, SNV in Nepal, DGIS in Latin America UNhabitat in Africa, and Waste /Gouda in India on ECO sanitation and biogas
  • Posts: 68
  • Likes received: 17
  • Karma: 5
When I worked in Trichy, India, I received an example of the urine valve shown in the picture. The casing and the funnelholder is from PVC and the soft plastic tube seems to be nylon, but I am not sure. I guess a durable material will be Goretex; since only a very small quantity is needed it may be commercially interesting. The texture of the tube has a very fine grain, possibly minimising it to stick together. The three scews are stainless steel. The funnel can be should be easy replaced when stuck and costs only a few cents. The whole thing costs less than a Euro in India. I am not working with the project, but more information can possibly be obtained from Mr Subbaraman, This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it from Scope Agency.

The second photo is a combination with the closng funnel and oil seal. The point with oil seals is that the (eventual) washwater flow in the drain should be slow so the oil stays on top.
Re-using condoms (if they have been used as condoms) as suggested by smecca is a bad idea, sorry.
Attachments:
Sjoerd from The Netherlands.
Pronounce: 'Sured'
Some of my work on: www.nienhuys.info
for correspondence: This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it

Re: Simple urine valves to control odour on waterless urinals or on urine diversion toilets 07 Jan 2014 05:06 #6904

  • Ecowaters
  • CONTACT
  • Posts: 6
  • Likes received: 2
  • Karma: 0
In the United States, various waterless urinal traps have been on the market. Most are mineral oil traps, but in simpler urinals, the rubber or "condom"-like trap appeared for awhile then was replaced by the Tyvek-strip trap. You could easily make your own.

Ecovita has sold about 400 simple waterless urinals with no trap. If the urine drains to gravel or to a tank with an angled pipe, urine odor potential is reduced.

Note the Wost-man urine-diverting toilet now features an odor trap in the urine drain.
Book writer, researcher, workshop presenter, eco-toilet vendor, market transformer

www.ecowaters.org
www.ecovita.net
www.carol-steinfeld.com (personal)
www.ecotoilet.org (soon)
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
Time to create page: 0.60 seconds