SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Tue, 04 Aug 2015 15:51:51 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Seminar: Productive Sanitation, Food Security and Resilient Livelihoods: What Have We Learned and What Are Barriers to Scale and Sustainability? (Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops) - by: madeleine http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#14197 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#14197
There is a significant growing interest in reuse. We had full house during our event and there were two more events on reuse at the conference also with good attendance and a new crowd. Some of the normal suspects came in late to our event and could not find a seat!

One of the presentation were reflecting two recent stocktaking studies on the development and lessons learnt in Niger and Burkina Faso concerning Ecological Sanitation and reuse. SEI is supporting the study to give us an idea of where we stand today. There is a huge gap on information caused by the previous chaotic situation at WSA.

Several African universities are doing research on reuse with very promising results-. Dr. Roshain Nikiema made a very interesting presentation on IMWIs research on reuse in Ghana , with the foresight of starting up a fertilizer factory in brief.

From the audience there was a sincere demand on more information and many raised questions why there were not more information about the potentials of reuse during the conference.
There is an interesting and thriving development taking place on the African continent where reuse and more systems thinking is core, many universities are involved in this process.

Dr Sudhir Pillay made an impressive presentation from South Africa where a lot research has been undertaken by many Universities and there is now evidence for bringing forward reuse and has also developed a new water policy focusing now or low water use and no sludge Very promising development !

Cheers
Madeleine]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 15 Jul 2015 12:51:20 +0000
Re: Seminar: Productive Sanitation, Food Security and Resilient Livelihoods: What Have We Learned and What Are Barriers to Scale and Sustainability? - by: SudhirPillay http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#14194 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#14194
The regulatory environment is different in South Africa than Burkino Faso. Many of the gap technology systems required scientific validation of the processes. For standard systems, we have guidelines (eg. sewerage sludge) etc. For faecal sludges, there were concerns whether it could be buried safely and used for beneficiation. This led to research into pathogen die-off and leaching from faecal sludge for agroindustries. It was the same with using effluent from DEWATS plant, algal pond systems or struvite reactors (how soil conditions change, do we see more growth, etc).]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 15 Jul 2015 09:38:52 +0000
Re: Seminar: Productive Sanitation, Food Security and Resilient Livelihoods: What Have We Learned and What Are Barriers to Scale and Sustainability? - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#14184 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#14184 Thanks for sharing the presentations from your event at AfricaSan about "Productive Sanitation, Food Security and Resilient Livelihoods".

I clicked through the presentations and found them very interesting, especially the one from South Africa because South Africa for me was not a country where reuse activities were strongly emphasised in the past (unlike Burkina Faso from where we have heard a lot about ecosan in the past).

Do you think you reached some new audiences with your session or was it bit like preaching to the converted? Were there any surprising questions asked or statements made?

How are things moving forwards in Burkina Faso and Niger now, after those former ecosan projects have come to an end? Who is now the local champion for reuse activities there?

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Tue, 14 Jul 2015 14:38:51 +0000
Fwd: history of ecosan work in Sweden... - by: elkv http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/10885-history-of-ecosan-causes-for-abandoning-recovery-of-nutrients-from-human-excreta-and-wikipedia-article-on-ecosan?limit=12&start=24#14146 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/10885-history-of-ecosan-causes-for-abandoning-recovery-of-nutrients-from-human-excreta-and-wikipedia-article-on-ecosan?limit=12&start=24#14146
I had a look at the "history of ecosan" section of the Wikipedia page on ecosan that you and others have edited:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecological_sanitation#History


Few comments (regarding the Swedish perspective):

- A workshop on ecological sanitation was held in Balingsholm, Sweden in Aug 1997, where all the established experts, including Håkan et al., Peter Morgan, Ron Sawyer, George Anna Clark, Gunder Edström etc, participated, so that workshop preceeded the 1999 one in Mexico for sure.

-Good you mention Sudea in Ethiopia, as far as I understand they really are the pioneers!

- In the examples you mention Sweden and blackwater from latrines. The blackwater collected is from blackwater systems, preferably from vacuum toilets, to closed tanks, not to latrines. An example of a blackwater treatment plant is shown in this video, about 10 mins into the video: Ripples on Baltic Waters. The video is about three farmers around the Baltic doing good to save the Baltic Sea from eutrophication.

- Also, the certification did not come into place 2003, but the report from SP was published in December 2012: www.sp.se/sv/units/certification/product.../SPCR/SPCR%20178.pdf so maybe it was meant to say 2013?

- It is said that Tanum went through with their urine diversion to save phosphorus, which I do not believe is true. To my understanding Tanum pushed for urine diversion due to their very rocky and challenging terrain initially, not to save P. I have cc.ed Mats and Anna Richert to this email both who knows more than I do about the Swedish developments. Hopefully they can shed more light on the Tanum case.

- Among the good cases I think Sumaj Huasi merits a mentioning with their great work they do in El Alto and its surroundings with dry systems including greywater filters. There is a good case study from SuSanA on their experience.

- On Erdos, it may be good to clarify that many challenges have been identified for urban DRY ecosan. On urban ecosan it could be mentioned the city of Hamburg which has plans for separate collection and treatment with possible reuse of blackwater in their Jenfelder Au project, and similar plans, definitely with reuse exist for the H+ area in Helsingborg, Sweden. These projects will all generate a lot of new knowledge and show the future for urban ecosan projects. Separate collection and treatment of blackwater in urban areas but on smaller scale and without reuse, already exists e.g. in Sneek in the Netherlands.

- On the P note, to my understanding the more important nutrient in human excreta actually is N, so it is unfortunate that P is always brought forward. Håkan has written some really good things on this topic but maybe so far only in Swedish. Håkan, do you have any good explanations in English why N is the more important nutrient to recycle from human excreta?

All for now!


Kind regards

Elisabeth]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Fri, 10 Jul 2015 13:38:36 +0000
Seminar: Productive Sanitation, Food Security and Resilient Livelihoods: What Have We Learned and What Are Barriers to Scale and Sustainability? - by: madeleine http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#13913 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#13913 very good summary of our event and all the presentations here:
sei-international.org/sustainable-sanitation/updates/3168

The SEI Initiative on Sustainable Sanitation organized a session at AfricaSan 4 in Dakar entitled Productive Sanitation, Food Security and Resilient Livelihoods: What Have We Learned and What Are Barriers to Scale and Sustainability?

The objective of the session was to take stock and learn from some important productive sanitation projects, businesses and research to date. There is an increasing awareness of the importance of considering the full sanitation chain, from toilet to disposal and/or reuse of resources found in wastewater streams. This is reflected in the draft Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). Sustainable and productive sanitation, taking the “reuse route” instead of simply disposing of wastewater, can support progress in many aspects of development beyond sanitation and health, notably food security and energy access. The important challenge is to ensure reuse efforts are sustained over time and create the enabling environment needed to take them from small-scale projects to scale.

Key messages from the session

  • We cannot continue to overlook the potential co-benefits from reuse.
  • Businesses capitalizing on the full sanitation chain to reuse are taking off–but they need stronger policy and regulatory support
  • Rural productive sanitation has to make the transition from projects to programmes/policies


Programme
17:40-17:45 Welcome and introduction by Hon. Dr Francois Lompo, Madeleine Fogde Chair and moderator

17:45-17:50 Recovering what and why: the potential of productive sanitation in sub-Saharan Africa: Linus Dagerskog, SEI

17:50-18:30 Looking back: What can we learn from past productive sanitation experiences? What has worked and what has failed – and why?

Panelists:

Savadogo Karim, CEFAME and SNV, Burkina Faso
Kailou Hamadou, Niger Ministry of Hydraulics and Sanitation
Dr Sudhir Pillay, Water Research Commission, South Africa
Dr Josiane Nikiema, International Water Management Institute Ghana

18:30-19:10 Moving forward: How do we make productive sanitation sustainable, especially at scale; and how can we overcome the remaining barriers?

Panelists:

Anselme Vodounhessi, GIZ/African Union
David Auerbach, SANERGY, Kenya
Brenda Achiro, Water for People, Uganda
Josephine Ouedraogo, Sanitation Directorate of Burkina Faso

All presentations and summaries of the discussions available here:
sei-international.org/sustainable-sanitation/updates/3168]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Sun, 28 Jun 2015 18:43:12 +0000
Update on re-using Peepoo as fertiliser in Kenya - by: mariaberndtsson http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13837-update-on-re-using-peepoo-as-fertiliser-in-kenya#13837 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13837-update-on-re-using-peepoo-as-fertiliser-in-kenya#13837
Currently there are 23 farmers using Peepoo fertiliser in Kirinyaga, Kenya, and around 60 that are awaiting delivery. The nutrient value has proven to be very good; Peepoo fertiliser is providing both immediately available nutrients and improving long-term soil fertility. The pilot, which was conducted together with University of Nairobi and the Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, has also demonstrated that Peepoo fertiliser also improves the water-holding capacity in the soils. The yields are increasing and the crops have better quality and are, according to the farmers, worth more when sold.

However there is still a fair bit to be investigated around the full commercialisation. We do not yet know the exact monetary value of Peepoo fertiliser and we do not know in which form it is preferably sold. Today it is used through so called "direct application" were used Peepoos are placed directly in the ground as they are. It works really well for cultivation, however since each Peepoo can vary in weight and in content it might be difficult to commercialise as it is.

Therefore we are now searching for funding to do proper market research and to commercialise Peepoo fertiliser on scale. For more information and/or if you have any recommendations, please contact the project manager This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

In April The Standard Kenya interviewed some of the farmers in Kirinyaga, the article is available here: www.standardmedia.co.ke/lifestyle/articl...to-kirinyaga-farmers]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 24 Jun 2015 07:51:05 +0000
AfricaSan4 sideevent : tomorrow Productive Sanitation , Food Security and Resilient livelyhood - by: madeleine http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#13431 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13913-seminar-productive-sanitation-food-security-and-resilient-livelihoods-what-have-we-learned-and-what-are-barriers-to-scale-and-sustainability#13431 AfrikaSan4 is about to start and we would like to invite you all in Senegal now to our very exiting Side event tomorrow 25 May 2015 17:40 -19.10
We are very honored that the Minister of Agriculture will chair our session.
We can promise a very exiting session with lesson learned from a decade of implementation of Productive Sanitation in Africa. Most welcome to you all.

Productive sanitation, taken to scale, could be a key to broad-ranging sustainable development in many African countries. An SEI side event at AfricaSan 4 will revisit past experiences for lessons on how to make it happen.

Food security and access to decent sanitation and hygiene services are fundamental to healthy and productive lives; but far too many people in low- and middle-income countries lack both. In sub-Saharan Africa (SSA) a quarter of the population were undernourished in 2011-2013, 80% have no electricity access, and a staggering 70% – 640 million people – still use substandard sanitation systems or none at all, despite marked improvements in recent years.

All of these are urgent challenges, particularly with the population growth and rapid urbanization projected for the region in the coming decades. But as diverse as the challenges are, they do not always need separate solutions. In particular, filling the region’s huge sanitation gap would not only vastly improve the health and living standards of that 640 million people, but in the process it could make a significant contribution to improving food security and meeting a range of other sustainable development targets.

Crucial to achieving this would be large-scale implementation of so-called productive sanitation systems – systems that make productive (and safe) use of nutrients, organic matter and water content of human excreta and wastewater for crop and energy production. The nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium in one person’s human excreta can boost yields by around 50 kg of cereals per year, on a conservative estimate, much more cheaply than commercial synthetic fertilizers. Productive sanitation can also strengthen local livelihoods and increase resilience to external pressures such as rising fertilizer prices and climate events.

Productive sanitation can take many forms, from household dry toilets or decentralized community-level systems right up to municipal scale. It is most immediately and obviously relevant to rural communities, and particularly smallholder farmers, who too often neglect to consider recycling human excreta even as they carefully manage local natural resources to ensure sustained crop production. It can also reduce pollution and degradation of local water resources. However, there is also vast potential in SSA’s fast-growing urban centres, where existing sewerage networks and sewage treatment systems often meet only a fraction of even today’s demand.

Looking back and looking ahead

Productive sanitation has proved its value in smaller, local projects. The question is how to take it to scale, and do so sustainably. Productive sanitation has to contend with all of the barriers and difficulties inherent in implementing conventional “disposal-oriented” sanitation in areas of low coverage – for example, the upfront investments, ensuring that the governance arrangements, technical capacity and financing models are in place to keep the systems working – and more on top. For example, productive sanitation demands long-term planning and cooperation between several government sectors: water, agriculture, energy, health and others. At the same time, people need to be convinced and supported to safely handle and reuse human excreta, and to trust foods fertilized with humanure,.

One of the central aims of the new SEI Initiative on Sustainable Sanitation is to see what we can learn from experiences with implementing productive sanitation and, in particular, to cast a fresh eye over some of the ostensible success stories of the past. Are they still working a few years after the final project evaluation? Which aspects of the system have changed and which have stood the test of time? And what can we learn from that about what is needed to sustain productive sanitation?

A side event hosted by SEI at AfricaSan 4, in Dakar, Senegal, on Monday 25 May will be a chance to do just that. The side event, titled Productive Sanitation, Food Security and Resilient Livelihoods, will start by looking back and learning. Among the presentations, Savadogo Karim, of CEFAME/SNV, will talk about experiences with taking ecological sanitation (ecosan) to scale in Burkina Faso. Kailou Hamadou of the Niger Ministry of Hydraulics and Sanitation will reflect on the legacy of a productive sanitation project in Aguié, Niger, five years on. Dr Sudhir Pillay of the Water Research Commission will talk about experiences in South Africa. (For a full list of presentations download the session programme in English or French.)

The second part of the session will look ahead. To be implemented in a sustainable way, productive sanitation systems need to be socially acceptable, economically viable, and technically and institutionally appropriate. An expert panel will guide discussions on how to overcome the barriers to scale and sustainability.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Sun, 24 May 2015 12:49:11 +0000
Re: Urine as fertilizer - by: Bhaskar http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13364 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13364
]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Mon, 18 May 2015 02:21:47 +0000
Re: Urine as fertilizer - by: Bhaskar http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13340 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13340
The inventor of Nualgi never worked in a laboratory, he always tested Nualgi in large waterways, since the challenge was to grow Diatoms in a large waterways, in a simple manner.

"So maybe this is what you mean when writing that micronutrient changes can alter the species composition."

Not quite. Diatoms grow well in winter and spring and dominate the water, the water quality is good when they dominate. Diatoms require more micro-nutrients, so all the micro-nutrients available are consumed and once the micro-nutrients are consumed diatoms decline and cyanoabacteria and weeds take over in summer and autumn. So dosing micro-nutrients enables diatoms to grow even in summer and autumn and water will be as clean as in winter and spring.

"Do let me know how much Nualgi you need to add (dose size per liter)"

1 liter per 10 million liters of eutrophic lakes once a week and
1 liter per 1 to 2 million liters of sewage - daily, since sewage flows daily.
The dosage is based on the nutrient level - about 1 liter of Nualgi for 80 kgs of N and 11 kgs of P.

"and over what length of time before you see stimulation of diatoms in eutrophic ponds?"

Diatoms start to grow within minutes of dosing.
Increase in DO and stop of foul odor due to Hydrogen Sulfide can be seen in 1 day.
Decline in BOD, COD, TN and TP can be measured in 1 week to 1 month.

"What happens to weed species like Chlorella or attached filamentous species like Stigeoclonium that can choke the pond with doubling times of only a few hours."

Diatoms can grow as fast as any other micro-algae, pico diatoms can grow faster than most other species in the water.

"Adding silicate in low amounts will not kill these weed species."

Only silica or only Iron is not the solution, that is why we are using Iron on a Silica base.

"Are these outcompeted or do you need to eradicate them first?"

It will take a long time - 6 months to 1 year for the large weeds like water hyacinth or rooted weeds like milfoil to wither and die off. Since people are impatient such large weeds may have to eradicated or physically removed first, this is only for customer satisfaction and not for scientific reasons.

"Are you using your systems to clean up eutrophic water bodies?"

Yes.

"Are the treatments short term or do they require continued applications?"

Depends on the nutrient inflow. If there is regular inflow continuous application is required, if not a 1 month treatment will last for 6 months or so.

"Are you using copper sulphate to first kill the resident algae?"

No.

But alum, silica and bacteria are dosed along with Nualgi to set right the N : P ratio, facilitate Diatom growth, decompose sludge, i.e., to speed up the process.

Copper sulfate and other short term solutions may be used, only for customer satisfaction to show quick results, scientifically speaking this is not required.

A slow and steady growth of Diatoms will solve all the problems, but it may take a long time in some lakes.

The dead BGA will be decomposed by the bacteria that grow due to the oxygen that is available from the Diatoms.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Thu, 14 May 2015 03:35:12 +0000
Re: Urine as fertilizer - by: arno http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13339 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13339 Interesting work you are doing. I cultured algae in laboratory batch monocultures for about 10 years, producing the nutrient culture medium from scratch. I have also grown algae for about 5 years in 8 m3 outdoor model ecosystems including transplanted species from natural systems in order to test the impacts of additions like N and P and toxic compounds interfering with N and P metabolism like arsenate and chlorate. Such additions (at ug/g levels) restructure the species composition of the ecosystem and often this can look like eutrophication since one or two weed species take over but the macro nutrient levels remain the same. So maybe this is what you mean when writing that micronutrient changes can alter the species composition. I have spent many years diving in polluted coastal zones along the trajectory of sewage effluents, carrying out benthic algal surveys. Algal communities reflect the water quality and grazing impacts of invertebrates and fish species.

Do let me know how much Nualgi you need to add (dose size per liter) and over what length of time before you see stimulation of diatoms in eutrophic ponds? What happens to weed species like Chlorella or attached filamentous species like Stigeoclonium that can choke the pond with doubling times of only a few hours. Adding silicate in low amounts will not kill these weed species. Are these outcompeted or do you need to eradicate them first? Are you using your systems to clean up eutrophic water bodies? Are the treatments short term or do they require continued applications? Are you using copper sulphate to first kill the resident algae?]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Thu, 14 May 2015 02:50:11 +0000
Re: Urine as fertilizer - by: Bhaskar http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13338 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13338
We have been growing Diatom Algae using micro-nutrients, for the past 10 years, since 2005. This is even in Eutrophic ponds and lakes and even in raw sewage.

Specific answers to your points -

"It is most often that the macro-nutrients steer what dominant algal species take over and most certainly the amount of biomass."

Macro-nutrients determine the quantum and micro-nutrients the species. Have you ever tried dosing micro-nutrients in eutrophic water and observed the results. It appears that your comments are based on book knowledge and not direct personal experimentation.

"In freshwater systems phosphate is ususally the element that is limiting in terms of biomass and opportunistic species - usually green or blue-green algae are selected for if nutrient levels are high. If grazing by invertebrates cannot keep up, algal blooms can occur."

When phosphate is high BGA is favoured due to their N fixing ability.
BGA are not grazed by invertebrates, that is why they bloom and cause problems.
That is why growing Diatoms is good, since they are the natural food for invertebrates.

"Once a small lake has become eutrophic it is almost impossible to reverse the trend unless effluents and agro runoff are stopped and benthic sediment (which is rich in nutrients) dredged."

We have been reversing the trend in eutrophic lakes since 2005 using our patented product Nualgi. This is a Nano Silica based micro-nutrient mix. It contains 10 micro-nutrients on a Nano Silica base. Since only Diatoms require silica, they consume it and grow rapidly and out compete other micro-algae, weeds and grass.

"Using ponds and coastal zones to grow weeds and algae and then herbivorous fish that graze on this biomass (eg carp and tilapia) is not a new practice."

We are specifically growing Diatom Algae, this is simpler and more beneficial. Additional land is not required - Diatoms can be grown directly in the eutrophic water, they are better food for fish - so fish grow better.

"I don't think we can play God and determine what microalgae are going to grow and where in natural systems."

We have been doing this since 2005.

"But micro plankton in natural systems are difficult to manipulate with small innocula."

We are NOT using innocula, we only dose Nualgi - it only contains micro-nutrients on a silica base and does NOT contain any Diatoms. All natural waters have diatoms ( aquariums to oceans), the native diatoms grow when Nualgi is dosed.

We are selling directly to customers who accept our views, we find that scientists like you do not believe that this is possible and do not even agree to do a systematic trial.

Growing Diatoms is the simplest answer to excess CO2 in atmosphere ( Climate Change / Global Warming ) and water ( Ocean Acidification ) and excess nutrients in water ( Eutrophication ).

Joe

If micro-nutrients are dosed the nutrient boundary can be pushed back quite a bit.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Thu, 14 May 2015 01:42:10 +0000
Re: Urine as fertilizer - by: joeturner http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13331 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13331
See here: www.stockholmresilience.org/21/research/...ew-and-improved.html

A 2011 paper specifically on P says:

The planetary boundary for freshwater eutrophication has been crossed while potential boundaries for ocean anoxic events and depletion of phosphate rock reserves loom in the future. The solution to this problem is widespread adoption of better practices for conserving P in agricultural ecosystems, so that P is cycled effectively among soil, crops, livestock and people without contributing to eutrophication of surface waters


see here: iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/6/1/014009/fulltext/]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 13 May 2015 16:39:05 +0000
Re: Urine as fertilizer - by: arno http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13330 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13330 The algal and plankton ecosystem composition reflects the water quality eg N/P ratio, micro nutrient levels, structural ecosystem changes due to fishing and toxic compounds that in turn affect ecosystem structure and function, etc. It is most often that the macro-nutrients steer what dominant algal species take over and most certainly the amount of biomass. In freshwater systems phosphate is ususally the element that is limiting in terms of biomass and opportunistic species - usually green or blue-green algae are selected for if nutrient levels are high. If grazing by invertebrates cannot keep up, algal blooms can occur. Blue-greens that can fix gaseous nitrogen (ie they are not nitrogen limited) are specially adapted such that if there is a spate of phosphate from runoff or from upwellings and if the temperature is sufficiently high, these algae can be selected for. In marine systems algal blooms can occur when there is enough nitrogen to support the growth since phosphate is usually not limiting in seawater. This can be triggered by different critical factors for a species eg temperature or even micro-nutrients.

When you write that an ideal algal population like diatoms can be selected for by manipulating the ratio of micro to macro nutrients, this can mainly be true for systems that are not already eutrophic (rich in nutrients) and that are instead so-called oligotrophic (low in nutrients). Once a small lake has become eutrophic it is almost impossible to reverse the trend unless effluents and agro runoff are stopped and benthic sediment (which is rich in nutrients) dredged. For larger systems the pelagic area can show signs of recovery once the coastal zones are cleaned up and there you might be able to see some of the algal indicators of good water quality but that can take many decades depending on the residency time of the water body. Rivers will recovery quickly if they are not overly dominated by connected upstream lakes that are eutrophic.

Using ponds and coastal zones to grow weeds and algae and then herbivorous fish that graze on this biomass (eg carp and tilapia) is not a new practice. This was standard practice eg in Chinese villages for many centuries. Sewage/septage added to fish ponds will produce fish like carp that can tolerate low oxygen levels. But if too much sewage is added the fish (or the plantlife) won't be able to tolerate the anaerobic conditions.

I don't think we can play God and determine what microalgae are going to grow and where in natural systems. This is possible for submergent and emergent macrophyte species where shore and costal zones can be seeded. But micro plankton in natural systems are difficult to manipulate with small innocula. Of course growing them in cultures and fermentors is possible for biotech products.

Regarding the question of the foam again, it is the surfactant component in the sewage that is causing this phenomenon. For the Varthur case there may be several surfactants coming into play, urine being one of them. If there have been some experiments on what levels of urine are required to cause this sort of mammoth foaming, it would be interesting to see these results.

Please tell us more about your work with diatoms.

Best wishes]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 13 May 2015 15:56:12 +0000
Re: Urine as fertilizer - by: Bhaskar http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13328 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13328
Are you open to discuss other reasons why Urine ( and fertilizer runoff ) in water is causing problems.

Soil has micro-nutrients ( mainly metals ) but has less macro-nutrients ( Nitrogen and Phosphorus ), that is why farmers have to use N P K fertilizers, either manure, urine or chemical ( Urea, Super Phosphate, etc.)and use less micro-nutrient supplements ( Iron Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, etc).

Water has a higher capacity to hold macro-nutrients, since N and P that enter water remain in the water, however micro-nutrients - mainly metals like Iron, Zinc, etc., are less stable in water.

Human action is resulting in input of N and P into waterways but not of micro-nutrients, so the Nutrient : Micro-nutrient balance of water is upset and the wrong type of organisms grow - Cyanobacteria / Blue Green Algae instead of Diatom Algae, this results in low DO and this results in Anaerobic bacteria instead of Aerobic bacteria and decline in Zooplankton and Fish.

So we believe that adding micro-nutrients to water in required ratio to balance the nutrient input from sewage or fertilizer runoff balanced the nutrient ratio and enables Diatom Algae to grow. When Diatoms grow the water is clean and well oxygenated with plenty of fish.

What if farmers used Fertilizer or Manure and grew weeds instead of grass and grass instead of grain.

What is the best phytoplankton / micro algae to grow in water ?
Have you ever thought of this ?

Diatoms are know as grasses of the Ocean.
Conversely Cyanobacteria are weeds.

The report in Deccan Herald gives details about the Varthur Lake foam - the Huffington Post article refers to it but does not quote fully from it -
www.deccanherald.com/content/474713/urin...-behind-varthur.html
Commenting on the accumulation of foam and the stink, M A Khan, Principal of K K school, said: “The smell is an indication that it is hydrogen sulfate and the foam is not because of any detergent soap but due to the phosphate getting into the lake. The urine content is so high that the phosphate in the urine turns into the foam.”

It appears that some research has been done on the issue of whether the foam is due to urine or detergents.

I have seen similar foam in other locations too and it is unlikely that there was a large detergent input in those areas - the sewage was mainly from slums - too poor to use detergents.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 13 May 2015 12:50:06 +0000
Re: Urine as fertilizer - by: arno http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13323 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/13263-urine-as-fertilizer-why-is-urine-a-resource-on-land-but-a-pollutant-in-water--question-from-india#13323 Having worked with the impacts of treated and untreated sewage in steams, rivers and lakes, for over 40 years I can say that it is highly doubtful that it is urine that could cause the extreme surfactant effects shown in the video creating large banks of pure white foam.

youtu.be/0rnP7gwusws

The "article" in Huffington Post shows no basis for the headline that urine is causing this effect. Detergents are much stronger surfactants than urine and are the most likely cause for this. But to address your question as to why urine is on one hand an effective fertilizer on land and a pollutant when added to water has more to do with the much higher capacity that soil has to deal with urine and excreta from terrestrial animals including humans compared to the capacity that water has to take on such compounds. Air contains 100s of times the amount of oxygen than what can be dissolved in water. So water becomes anoxic and thus organic materials like urine and faeces putrify and create noxious odours like hydrogen sulfide. Urine when added to soil and growing plants is a near perfect fertilizer. Thus Agriculture Minister Eknath Khadse's recent statement about collecting urine at Multiplexes does make a lot of sense. www.mid-day.com/articles/agriculture-min...elp-farmers/16196181

One day of urine from an adult contains sufficient fertilizer to produce a kg (fresh weight) of food in the form of maize cobs over about 3 months of growth.


This from Peter Morgan's work in Zimbabwe. www.ecosanres.org/pdf_files/PM_Report/Ch...lness_of_urine_a.pdf]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 13 May 2015 11:26:22 +0000