SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Thu, 24 Jul 2014 21:41:39 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Biochar and MgO used to recover P and N from urine - by: SusannahSoilet http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/7323-biochar-and-mgo-used-to-recover-p-and-n-from-urine#9455 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/7323-biochar-and-mgo-used-to-recover-p-and-n-from-urine#9455
I haven't been able to establish a point of contact for the authors, but the Powerpoint is searchable through Google, so I feel is probably to be considered 'open'.

Link is: www.biochar.illinois.edu/docs/20130405-Tao_Xie.pps

If this is incorrect or inappropriate I apologise!

I did not manage to attach it. Need assistance from a teenager I think!

I have just been to the second British Biochar Conference, and am still excited about the possibilities.]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Wed, 23 Jul 2014 16:39:04 +0000
Re: Biochar and MgO used to recover P and N from urine - by: osbert http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/7323-biochar-and-mgo-used-to-recover-p-and-n-from-urine#9359 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/7323-biochar-and-mgo-used-to-recover-p-and-n-from-urine#9359 Am interested in this research could you please seek consent from the author?

Osbert]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Tue, 15 Jul 2014 12:56:04 +0000
Re: Reuse in your country (is it legal, what are the standards, culturally accepted?) - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8817-reuse-in-your-country-is-it-legal-what-are-the-standards-culturally-accepted#8931 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8817-reuse-in-your-country-is-it-legal-what-are-the-standards-culturally-accepted#8931
I noticed that your post from 2 June didn't get a reply yet. This is not surprising as the questions you posed were way too broad.
Please first give a context to your question: why do you ask? What research have you done so far? Which countries are you interested in, and why? Who are you?

Then I am sure more people will be willing to post some information for you.

Also, do take a look at previous discussions in this thread:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/7-agricultural-reuse

Then I think you will already get some pointers for some countries at least.

And of course there is also the Susana library which you could filter by the Working Group 5 theme (food security & reuse):
www.susana.org/lang-en/library?showby=ye...vbl_8=42&vbl_0=0

I look forward to hearing from you again soon, as Action against Hunger is a very important SuSanA partner!

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:36:39 +0000
Struvite taken up in Dutch Fertiliser Laws January 2015 - by: MRonteltap http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8924-struvite-taken-up-in-dutch-fertiliser-laws-january-2015#8924 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8924-struvite-taken-up-in-dutch-fertiliser-laws-january-2015#8924
(Elisabeth, I could not find a category on legislation; if there is a better place for this post please shift it there - thanks!)

From the Dutch newsletter of our national Nutrient Platform I copy (google-translate) paste the following information. I hope you find it useful, and other countries will follow suit! Best regards, Mariska.

Struvite taken up in the fertiliser legislation from January 2015

Struvite is a phosphate fertiliser (magnesium ammonium phosphate) which can be produced from waste, sewage sludge and manure. Depending on the composition, struvites have an agriculturally fast or slow effect as a phosphate fertilizer. Depending on the source, struvite may be contaminated with heavy metals, organic microcompounds or pathogens. The use and handling of the waste as struvite fertiliser is currently only possible if the substance is listed in Annex AA of the Implementation Law on Fertilisers; for example, the product of a potato processing industry is listed in Annex AA. For other struvites and struvite containing waste there was a missing business opportunity as a fertiliser.

However, this is now changing. An amendment to the Implementation Law on Fertilisers is being prepared, where it is possible to bring struvite on the market as raw material for phosphate fertiliser or directly as phosphate fertiliser. The finalisation of the amendment after the interministerial coordination will go down in May. Currently during the summer months, the Council of State will key the bills. Then, the finalisation takes place in September and the Cabinet needs to approve the bill in October. Planning is to publish the bill in the Government Gazette, after which it will enter into force 1 January 2015.

More information: Annemiek Strijker, a.strijker @ nutrientplatform.org, tel +31 70-304 3763.



With best regards,
Mariska
_____
Dr.ir. Mariska Ronteltap
Senior Lecturer in Sanitary Engineering
Environmental Engineering and Water Technology Department
UNESCO-IHE Institute for Water Education
Westvest 7, 2611 AX Delft, The Netherlands
T: +31 15 215 1767 | E: m.ronteltap@unesco-ihe.org
NB. Not in the office on Thursdays]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Wed, 11 Jun 2014 07:40:43 +0000
Reuse in your country (is it legal, what are the standards, culturally accepted?) - by: washfsl http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8817-reuse-in-your-country-is-it-legal-what-are-the-standards-culturally-accepted#8817 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8817-reuse-in-your-country-is-it-legal-what-are-the-standards-culturally-accepted#8817
Working at Action contre la Faim (Action against Hunger) in France, I actually work on reuse (with urine, feces... for composting...).

1) I was wondering if reuse is legal in your country? If yes, what are the standards?
2) Is it culturally accepted?

Thank you for your attention.

Solène
For Action contre la Faim]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Mon, 02 Jun 2014 09:32:27 +0000
composting questions - by: morgan http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8802 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8802
Indeed the process which takes place in the pits is mesophilic which relies on biological processes and time and not the generation of heat. The volume of the pit varies somewhat being smallest in the Arborloo and larger in the Fossa alterna, and larger still in the so called long cycle Fossa alterna, which is still on trial.

You said:
I noticed with great interest that the nature of the container used during composting influences the nutrients remaining at the end of composting. What explanation did you come up with for the differences noted among containers types?


In the various experiments, the mix of excreta and soil and ash added to urine diverting toilets in the so called “skyloo” an elevated urine diverting toilet with a single vault and where the materials enter a bucket, which is them emptied in a variety of composting sites or containers. Early experiments used composting jars, then alternating composting pits. Extra ingredients were added to these composting sites, notably leaves and more soil. In each case the material turned into a crumbly pleasant soil much like compost. With the Arborloo, the conversions take place under ground and out of site. The roots of the young tree planted at first penetrate the soil which is added on top of the excreta/soil mix beneath. Then the roots will penetrate further when the plant (tree) itself assesses the nature of the composted material.

In the case of the material extracted from the Fossa alterna, there are various destinations. The material can be placed in the lower half of so called “tree pits.” Here the upper half if the pit is topped up with topsoil and the tree planted. Alternatively the topsoil of a vegetable bed can be removed and the material from the Fossa alterna spread over the excavation. Then the topsoil is replaced. The two layers can be mixed.

You said:
Assuming that the same material was used for those trials, would it not be reasonable to hold that the differences in nutrients contents could be due to differences in aeration and drainage? If this is the case, then N, and to a lesser extent, K, would be affected. However in your papers, P was also affected.


The material used originates from a number of different toilets and times of year. Therefore there would be differences in temperature. Also the precise amount of soil and sash and even leaves added varied in the different toilets. The nutrient level of the soil added would also vary. The quality and nutrient level of the final product would vary depending on the type of soil, and the amounts of additional materials added. Also, particularly in countries with people who suffer from inadequate diets, there will be a variation in the amounts of nutrients held in the excreta. Perhaps since you are a professional in this field, you can provide an answer to your own question.

You said:
Greater aeration could result in greater loss of N (mirroring C losses), whereas greater drainage in combination with excessive watering would result in greater N and K (both in soluble (as ions) and particulate (organic) forms). P should then be lost mostly in organic particulate form during excessive leaching events associated with excessing watering.


Well the points you make are valid and interesting. There is a lot of variation between toilets and also the users. The soil type, related to drainage, varies enormously. I have tried to keep things simple. Perhaps you should take up the challenge and try to answer your own questions.

You said:
This is to say that with different types of containers, we are in fact having different aeration and drainage conditions?


I am sure there is great variation depending on container type.

You said:
In your experiment with rape, urine seemed to have been detrimental to plant growth. It would be interesting to see whether the combination of urine with compost tea would "neutralize" the toxic effect of urine on sensitive plants. In my experience, compost tea alone can help keep the plant vigorous during times of stress.


In my experiments the application of dilute urine increased the growth and production of rape as well as other green vegetables. I am sure compost tea, or just simply good compost, whether it came via the toilet route or through the garden compost heap, would also invigorate plant growth.

Overall the best food for plants comes from natural well-made compost and added to topsoil. Too much urine, if improperly added can indeed kill off some less tolerant plants, and also add excess salts to the soil, if the same patch of soil is used repeatedly.

I would urge you to continue with your own experiments and report to this forum.

Best wishes

Peter]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Sat, 31 May 2014 09:17:43 +0000
Re: human compost - by: Guinya http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8702 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8702
Thank you so much for you thorough reply. Unfortunately, Internet connectivity can be occasionally frustrating from our end. I read the documents that you kindly attached. I noticed that the method that you use for composting avoid contact with fresh humanure - which is a commendable thing. There no need to turn, as it is usually done with compost.

It seems to me that given the size of the composting pits (less than 1 m3), and the amount of soil added (50% V/V) heat will not be generated. We are thus dealing with a mesophilic composting, relying mostly on biological processes and time for the elimination of pathogens.

I noticed with great interest that the nature of the container used during composting influences the nutrients remaining at the end of composting. What explanation did you come up with for the differences noted among containers types?

Assuming that the same material was used for those trials, would it not be reasonable to hold that the differences in nutrients contents could be due to differences in aeration and drainage? If this is the case, then N, and to a lesser extent, K, would be affected. However in your papers, P was also affected.

Greater aeration could result in greater loss of N (mirroring C losses), whereas greater drainage in combination with excessive watering would result in greater N and K (both in soluble (as ions) and particulate (organic) forms). P should then be lost mostly in organic particulate form during excessive leaching events associated with excessing watering.

This is to say that with different types of containers, we are in fact having different aeration and drainage conditions?

In your experiment with rape, urine seemed to have been detrimental to plant growth. It would be interesting to see whether the combination of urine with compost tea would "neutralize" the toxic effect of urine on sensitive plants. In my experience, compost tea alone can help keep the plant vigorous during times of stress.

warm regards,

Guillaume]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Thu, 22 May 2014 11:39:45 +0000
Re: Dried vs. composted fecal material: merit and demerit - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8569 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8569
Besides the NPK nutrients one has probably have to look at the specific humic substances that are created in the warm and micro-aerobic interior of a compost heap. They are probably what gives the most benefit as a soil conditioner.]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Sun, 11 May 2014 14:55:19 +0000
human compost - by: morgan http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8567 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8567
I have seen your question on the Susana website a few weeks ago concerning comparisons made between dried and composted human “manure.” It is possible that you already have received answers from our learned colleagues at the Universities, such as the agricultural college in Uppsala, Sweden, who have the equipment to test for such things.
We have done some rather simple work here in Zimbabwe on the nutrient levels in composted human waste. I attach some of the findings.

These have been mainly concentrating on human compost processed in the Fossa alterna, where both urine and faeces are added to shallow composting pits together with soil, wood ash and very often leaves as well.

In urine diverting toilets that I have used myself, soil and ash are added as well, and in the single chamber version that I studied, where the faeces fell into buckets, this mix of faeces, soil, ash and toilet paper were moved from the buckets into separate composting chambers where more soil and leaves were added.

Where the human faeces (in urine diversion) or combination of faeces and urine (in Fossa alterna) build up together with soil, and ash and hopefully leaves as well (representing plant matter), the resulting nutrient content is likely to be rather different from dried faeces alone.

We did undertake testing of the “compost” produced from the Fossa alterna. And also performed plant trials. These have been documented in work entitled “An ecological approach to Sanitation” which was posted in 2006 (SEI Stockholm). I shall have to look closely to see if tests were also made in the compost produced from the urine diverting toilet (where soil, ash and leaves were added).

I think the bottom line is that where the faeces just dry out with a drying or bulking agent like ash (which I think is the norm for most urine diverting toilets) the nutrient content will have useful amounts of phosphorus and potash but not much else, as the nitrogen will have been lost. However if the faeces or combination of faeces and urine are mixed with soil, ash and leaves, a better balance of nutrients will result with a much more suitable (crumbly) texture for use in agriculture.

I think the tests and results of these early works is on the Susana website. See the individual chapters attached below.
Hope this helps

Best wishes

Peter Morgan
Zimbabwe]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Sun, 11 May 2014 07:58:52 +0000
Re: Dried vs. composted fecal material: merit and demerit - by: Guinya http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8246 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8246 I would like to find papers comparing dried to composted human faecal material with regard to properties such as water retention, structure stability, disease suppression (i.e., soil borne plant diseases), and human pathogens inactivation.

Would you have some experience with both forms of treatments, I would be eager to learn from your experience.

Warmly,
Guillaume]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Wed, 16 Apr 2014 07:17:48 +0000
Re: Dried vs. composted fecal material: merit and demerit - by: joeturner http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8225 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8225
Can I just be clear what you are asking for - do you want to see benefits to the soil of dried vs composted human faeces? Or do you mean in terms of the destruction of pathogenic microbes in the faeces?]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Mon, 14 Apr 2014 10:54:52 +0000
Dried vs. composted fecal material: merit and demerit - by: Guinya http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8216 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/8216-dried-vs-composted-fecal-material-merit-and-demerit#8216 I am an agronomist specialized in soils. I am currently based in Burundi/Rwanda working on the integration waste management with agriculture. The last five years were spent working with the Baha'i Gardens in Haifa (now part of the Unesco World Heritage) investigating on ways to reduce chemical fertilizers and pesticides use in the Garden.

For revitalization of biological processes in the soil, improvement of soil structure, achieving a balanced nutritional status in the soil, and fostering disease suppressiveness, we experimented with different ways of making compost / managing biowastes (i.e., aerobic vs. anaerobic/bokashi; fermentation of food waste with EM followed by aerobic composting then vermicomposting; incorporation of rock dust and/or biochar and/or gypsum).

This background in composting and soil amendments, has shaped my perspective on humanure. I haven't yet seen scientific works comparing dried human excreta to composted human excreta (please share if you are aware of any). However, similar work comparing aged [cow/chicken/pig/horse] manure to composted [cow/chicken/pig/horse] manure exists.
I am aware of some attempts in certain circles to treat humane fecal material by a combination of lactic fermentation (in combination with biochar and rock dust), composting and vermicomposting. This would be similar to what we experimented with on food waste, back in Haifa.

Based on my current understanding, I would think that composting of humanure would yield a better soil amendment than dried humanure, as this tends to be the case for animal manure (that is, if water and nutrient retention, soil structure stability, and disease suppression are factored in).
However, the more elaborate/complex a procedure becomes, the harder and more expensive it becomes for private entrepreneurs or local farmers. Then the question is how to join efficacy of treatment/transformation with simplicity of design?

Dearest friends, I am really sharing these thoughts in a spirit of learning and humility, trying to bring you in our conversation as we try to design the most sustainable management scheme for human excreta in Bujumbura (Burundi)/Kigali (Rwanda). The more bright minds and experience we manage to put together, the better.

Warm regards,

Guillaume
===================================================
Guillaume Nyagatare, Ph.D
Tel: +250 789 52 9484 (Rwanda)
Tel: +257 79 43 3057 (Burundi)
This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it ]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Sun, 13 Apr 2014 06:41:08 +0000
Re: Market Survey for Compost - by: NPreneta01 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/4897-market-survey-for-compost#8098 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/4897-market-survey-for-compost#8098
I know that IWMI is currently working on a review of a large number of case studies of Resource Recovery and Reuse (RRR) programs in developing countries. This review is specifically interested in looking at the cases' business models, as many composting programs in the past have been dependent on subsidies and function only at a small scale. It will be very interesting to see the selected case studies and learn from different actors' experiences once this publication is complete.

Nick]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Thu, 03 Apr 2014 22:37:39 +0000
Re: TERRA PRETA SANITATION (TPS): Vermicomposting or Thermophilic Composting? - by: cecile http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/7506-terra-preta-sanitation-tps-vermicomposting-or-thermophilic-composting#7945 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/7506-terra-preta-sanitation-tps-vermicomposting-or-thermophilic-composting#7945
There was an interesting discussion about vermicomposting in this forum here
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/70-com...01-worms-worms-worms

If you type "lombristation" in google you will find documents about a vermicomposting waste water treatment company (called Lombritek)
There is one station working in the south of France (you can find documentation about it in SuSanA's library). The technology was developped to treat waste water of 2000-4000 people but the company is currently developing a system to treat sludge before treatment in WWTP for 2 000 to 20 000 people.

Finally to answer your question, vermicomposting or thermophilic composting,I would say the answer is not so much which technology is better, but what do you have to treat in the first place(caracterisation of the "waste"), climate, space, budget and ressources (know how). This may be not very satisfactory for modellisation but from my point of view it is difficult to answer this kind of question from a theoretical point of view.

By the way, is there a reason for the figure of 20 000 people in urban community ? In France, "innovative" sanitation systems (vermicomposting, constructed wetlands) are usually tested for 5EH (person equivalent), then 20 EH, then on small municipalities 200-5000 before being upgraded to larger treatment plants.

Kind regards,]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Mon, 24 Mar 2014 09:28:34 +0000
Re: TERRA PRETA SANITATION (TPS): Urine diversion or no diversion? - by: cecile http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/7509-terra-preta-sanitation-tps-urine-diversion-or-no-diversion#7944 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser--soil-conditioner/7509-terra-preta-sanitation-tps-urine-diversion-or-no-diversion#7944
Could you please give us a little bit more on your background ? Are you working for a university ? And also, what is the purpose of your research ?

I understand your project is reasearch and modelling, but I can't help thinking about the concrete, more "down to earth" aspects of such a project.
In all sanitation projects the solutions are not only issued from technical constraints but also from the software component.
As Ralf mentionned both technologies work and as you mentionned, both have their pros and cons.
If you are trying to use a "suitable (...) system for a community" it is as important to consider the technical suitability and the suitability for the users as importantly. The personal hygiene habits and culture of the users (washers / wipers, pros / against separation) density, types of building, climate, will influence the technology, as much as the technology itself. Are the users more likely to have UD type toilets like in Sweden or non separation toilets like in France.
How many participants can you reasonnably get ?
The financial sustainability is important, as door to door collection systems rely on human resources, which depending on the country you are modelling your system can be quite heavy.
I am basing these thoughts on a couple of initiatives in France, where this idea of door to door collection and external treatment of dry toilets residues are popular among dry toilet users. There were several attempts to set up door to door collection systems and undertaking composting or co composting on platforms. For these initiatives the technical issues were not as important as the behavioural, legal, financial and participatory aspects. I think if you consider these aspects it will narrow the starting parameters of your research.
Kind regards,
Cecile]]>
Fertiliser / soil conditioner Mon, 24 Mar 2014 08:59:43 +0000