SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Wed, 01 Apr 2015 03:08:49 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: New photos by SOIL Haiti about reuse of excreta-based compost - by: SOILHaiti http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12618-new-photos-by-soil-haiti-about-reuse-of-excreta-based-compost#12619 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12618-new-photos-by-soil-haiti-about-reuse-of-excreta-based-compost#12619 www.oursoil.org and join us on social media @SOILHaiti.

- Leah Page, SOIL Development Director]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Thu, 26 Mar 2015 15:32:59 +0000
New photos by SOIL Haiti about reuse of excreta-based compost - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12618-new-photos-by-soil-haiti-about-reuse-of-excreta-based-compost#12618 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12618-new-photos-by-soil-haiti-about-reuse-of-excreta-based-compost#12618
Leah Nevada Page from SOIL Haiti has kindly uploaded some of their beautiful reuse photos to the SuSanA flickr photo database. I had noticed them in their tweets and had suggested to her to also upload them to flickr to make them more easily found by people looking on the internet for photos.

Leah has kindly uploaded some photos now and you can see and admire them in this set:
www.flickr.com/photos/gtzecosan/sets/72157650521069149

You are free to use these photos in your own work to illustrate excreta reuse options in general (please make sure you credit SOIL Haiti for the photo, of course).

I like in particular these four:

SOIL Administrator Ghislaine Jean Louis documents the harvest of peppers at a SOIL experimental garden Photo Credit Ricardo Venegas by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr


Spinach sales in Port-au-Prince by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr

SOIL agronomist admires cabbage grown in compost (left) and without soil amendments (right). by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr

Sorghum experiments at the SOIL farm. by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr

I have used three of these photos also to illustrate the Wikipedia article on reuse of excreta:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuse_of_excreta



And I have also added a paragraph about their reuse work to the end of the Wikipedia article:

Haiti [edit source | edit]

The NGO SOIL in Haiti began building urine-diverting dry toilets and composting plants in Port-au-Prince as part of the 2010 Haiti earthquake emergency relief effort in northern Haiti.[31] SOIL’s two composting waste treatment facilities currently transform over 20,000 gallons (75,708 liters) of human excreta into safe, organic, agricultural-grade compost every month. The compost produced at these facilities is sold to farmers, organizations, businesses, and institutions around the country to help finance SOIL’s waste treatment operations.[32] Crops grown with this soil amendment include spinach, peppers, sorghum and maize. Each batch of compost produced is tested for the indicator organism helminth eggs to ensure that complete pathogen kill has taken place during the thermophilic composting process.[citation needed]


This paragraph, and in fact the entire Wikipedia article, is as usual "work in progress" and I invite you all to contribute or to point out things that need to be improved. Thanks.

Thanks again to the staff of Haiti for sharing their experiences! If you also want to follow them on twitter, this is their account: twitter.com/SOILHaiti

Regards,
Elisabeth


P.S. This other forum thread explains a bit more about the mobile toilets that Haiti uses to collect the excreta (generally the toilets are with urine diversion, although the ones at schools are without):
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/52-mob...composting-and-reuse]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Thu, 26 Mar 2015 14:12:40 +0000
Re: Can organic fertilizer compete against conventional fertilizer on an open market scenario? - by: ben http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12142 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12142
I like the way the question is turned "to compete". If you only look at the price of a kg of urea, for sure it can't yet. But if you take all externalities like worse water soil retention / worse resilience to viruses-bacterias / treatment cost of poluted ground water / health cost of both farmers-consumers / cost of loss of biodiversity / human cost of the long southern sahara conflict / etc ... then it gets interesting.

We see a lot of publication on "the cost of bad sanitation" including all externalities, if someone have something similar on chemical fertilizer I'd be very interested.

Best,

Ben]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Thu, 19 Feb 2015 07:32:10 +0000
Re: Key documents for the sub-category on fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12122-wikipedia-article-on-qreuse-of-excretaq-possible-improvements#12140 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12122-wikipedia-article-on-qreuse-of-excretaq-possible-improvements#12140 you (or someone else knowledgeable on this subject) add this information in once you have better access to a computer again because you are far more knowledgeable on this subject than I am, and you have read more about it.

However, I think it is not "fair" to only add it to the excreta reuse page on Wikipedia, but it should also be added to the sewage and sewage treatment plant pages - because I still think the risks there are most likely greater than the risks with reuse activities, or at the very least the same.

Actually most importantly, it should go into the article on antimicrobial resistance which looks very detailed already (James has been one of the editors there): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antimicrobial_resistance

That page does not mention sewage but a search for the term wastewater (using the wonderful Control+F function which I only recently re-discovered!) led me to this section:

A study the Poudre River (Colorado, United States) implicated wastewater treatment plants, as well as animal-feeding operations in the dispersal of antibiotic-resistance genes into the environment.[63] This research was done using molecular signatures in order to determine the sources, and the location at the Poudre River was chosen due to lack of other anthropogenic influences upstream. The study indicates that monitoring of antibiotic-resistance genes may be useful in determining not only the point of origin of their release but also how these genes persist in the environment. In addition, studying physical and chemical methods of treatment may alleviate pressure of antibiotic-resistance genes in the environment, and thus their entry back into human contact.


So perhaps the best way forward is to insert the additional information that we feel is important in this article, and then to make a reference across to this page from the other pages (reuse of excreta, sewage, sewage treatment plant).

As with anything on Wikipedia, the person or persons who feel most strongly about an aspect should be the first to edit the information.

(which is why today I spent some time linking articles on "peak phosphorus", "sewage sludge treatment" and "plantary boundaries" with the article on reuse of excreta, and adding additional references to it.)

By the way, Trevor told me the other day that for the first time he noticed "Wikipedia" as a referral source when analysing what brings traffic to the SuSanA website. This could be due to all those references that are in the SuSanA library which I have been linking to in various Wikipedia articles. I take this as a very positive sign.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 18 Feb 2015 20:57:07 +0000
Re: Key documents for the sub-category on fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12122-wikipedia-article-on-qreuse-of-excretaq-possible-improvements#12139 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12122-wikipedia-article-on-qreuse-of-excretaq-possible-improvements#12139
However I think there needs to be a clear distinction between those (like hormones) and resistance gene harbouring vectors. The subclinical concentrations of the antibiotics themselves are only a smaller aspect that makes the survival of the gene vectors more likely, but is not necessary for their spread.

I think mentioning these risk in the resuse article makes sense as human and animal feces potentially have a high concentration of these vectors, and by closing the loop one has to try and minimize their spread back into the population.

In the original thread I linked above, I quoted a paper that has some details on resistance gene survival/destruction in compost etc.

Just limiting this to sewerage or its spread into drinking water supplies is a bit short sighted, as resistant bacteria can just as well survive on food produced with re-used excreta and they could also be a risk factor for the workers dealing with the compost etc.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 18 Feb 2015 19:53:50 +0000
Re: Key documents for the sub-category on fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12122-wikipedia-article-on-qreuse-of-excretaq-possible-improvements#12134 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12122-wikipedia-article-on-qreuse-of-excretaq-possible-improvements#12134 which aspect you want to include the antibiotic resistant bacteria theme in the Wikipedia article on reuse of excreta (and giving which reference)? I can't remember seeing a reference that talks about this being a problem when excreta (or wastewater) is reused in agriculture - presumably as the soil acts like a capable barrier for those antibiotic resistant bacteria or the antibiotics themselves? - rather it is a problem when sewage (containing antibiotics or antibiotic-resistant bacteria) is only partially treated or discharged into surface waters untreated?

Wouldn't it therefore perhaps be more important to add this aspect into the Wikipedia page on sewage treatment (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewage_treatment) or on sewage (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sewage) as it's the sewage, and particularly the untreated or partially treated sewage e.g. in countries like India or China (with rampant, unchecked antibiotics use) that is giving us these headaches of antibiotic-resistant bacteria getting back into our drinking water supplies?

Mind you, perhaps you are thinking of antibiotics also in animal manure which could end up in groundwater (would they (the antibiotics) still be effective though? Would they (the antibiotics and the antibiotic-resistant bacteria "survive" their travel through the soil matrix intact? Could gene transfer take place?).

Note: this is what we currently have about pharmaceutical residues (which antibiotics would fall under) on the reuse of excreta page:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuse_of_excreta#Pharmaceutical_residues

Pharmaceutical residues [edit source | editbeta]
Exreta from humans and farmed animals contain hormones and pharmaceutical residues which could in theory enter the food chain via fertilised crops but are currently not fully removed by conventional wastewater treatment plants anyway and can enter drinking water sources via household wastewater (sewage).[18] In fact, the pharmaceutical residues in the excreta are degraded better in terrestrial systems (soil) than in aquatic systems.[18]


I actually don't know enough about all this, so am looking forward to further inputs and edits on the respective Wikipedia pages by any of you (with good references being provided).]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 18 Feb 2015 14:56:28 +0000
Re: Can organic fertilizer compete against conventional fertilizer on an open market scenario? - by: scottchen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12127 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12127 Thank you very much for your reply to Sahidul who actually asked me to give him an answer.
FIY. Chinese like the crops grown with the human waste and even are happy to pay a higher price for the crops.
best regards
Scott]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 18 Feb 2015 07:10:20 +0000
Re: Can organic fertilizer compete against conventional fertilizer on an open market scenario? - by: scottchen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12126 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12126 There are not any different know-how but UDDTs. I collect urine from 20,000 pupils at 31 schools equiped with UDDTs.
For apple trees, we apply urine 3 times a year..
All the apples are sold to the customers in big cities by courier companies via the Internet.
The attached pictures shows you how i am working on it.
All my produces are much more expensive than those grown with chemical fertilizer.
For example, apples, 30-50 RMB a kilo, cherries 120 RMB a kilo...
best wihses
Scott]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Wed, 18 Feb 2015 06:53:50 +0000
Wikipedia article on "reuse of excreta" - possible improvements - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12122-wikipedia-article-on-qreuse-of-excretaq-possible-improvements#12122 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12122-wikipedia-article-on-qreuse-of-excretaq-possible-improvements#12122 forum.susana.org/forum/categories/26-hea...n-one-likely-culprit

(I would add it myself, but the editing options via the mobile version of the wikipedia are to limited to add more than a few sentences and I don't have access to a real computer right now.)]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Tue, 17 Feb 2015 23:24:48 +0000
Re: Can organic fertilizer compete against conventional fertilizer on an open market scenario? - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12112 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12112
you said:
Can you please share the documents in details from where we can get technical know-how.


Which know-how do you mean in particular?
Do you mean the use of excreta-based fertilisers in agriculture in general? Or urine use in particular? Or documents comparing organic fertilisers (excreta-based fertilisers) versus mineral fertilisers?

There are lots of documents out there (might be a bit overwhelming even), if you narrow down the subject it is easier for us to help you.

As a starting point, I recommend that you read through the Wikipedia article on "reuse of excreta" which we created recently and which lists important references at the end:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuse_of_excreta

(to all: please help me improve this article by making improvements directly in Wikipedia or by telling me about improvements that I should make)

I have also today made a post on the forum here where I try to give some guidance on key documents in the thematic area of fertiliser, soil conditioner and production of crops:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fer...-production-of-crops

Please let me know if this is useful or if you would like to narrow down your search.

If you want to know about Scott's work in China with urine as a fertiliser for apple trees in particular, then I can recommend this thread to you:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/175-fo...-successful-business

(but I don't think there are any publications in English from this project/business yet)

And there is probably already quite a bit or reuse of faecal sludge going on in Bangladesh, as your farmers know about the fertilising values of faecal sludge?
For faecal sludge reuse, I can recommend this book by Eawag-Sandec to you:
www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/2100

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Tue, 17 Feb 2015 11:06:29 +0000
Key documents for the sub-category on fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12109-key-documents-for-the-sub-category-on-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops#12109 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/12109-key-documents-for-the-sub-category-on-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops#12109 For more information about why I am creating this new thread, please see here:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/10-gen...d-sub-category-level

++++++++++++++

This thread is a "sticky thread" which means it will always remain at the top of this sub-category.
It contains a recommendation for new people regarding the most important 3-5 documents in the thematic area of "fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops".

The initial selection was done by me, but this is open for discussion and can be adjusted regularly.

Recommended top 5 documents in the thematic area of "fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops"* :

(1)
Richert, A., Gensch, R., Jönsson, H., Stenström, T., Dagerskog, L. (2010). Practical guidance on the use of urine in crop production. Stockholm Environment Institute (SEI), Sweden

www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/757

This book gives practical guidance on the use of urine in crop production as a vital component of sustainable crop production and sanitation systems. It also includes guidance on how to start activities that will facilitate the introduction of new fertilisers to the agricultural community. The handbook should help in establishing links between research and professionals interested in implementation of sustainable sanitation systems. It is easy to read and informative, with examples from case studies and hints on further reading for those interested.


(2)
WHO (2006). WHO Guidelines for the Safe Use of Wastewater, Excreta and Greywater - Volume IV: Excreta and greywater use in agriculture. World Health Organization (WHO), Geneva, Switzerland

www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/1004

Volume 4 of the Guidelines focuses exclusively on the safe use of excreta and greywater in agriculture. Recent trends in sanitation, including ecological sanitation, are driven by rapid urbanization. The momentum created by the Millennium Development Goals is resulting in dramatic changes in human waste handling and processing. New opportunities enable the use of human waste as a resource for pro-poor agricultural development, particularly in peri-urban areas. Best practice to minimize associated health risks is at the heart of this volume.


(3)
Morgan, P. (2011). Trees as recyclers of nutrients present in human excreta - Main tree report. Aquamor, Zimbabwe and Stockholm Environment Institute, Sweden
www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/1285

This report clearly indicates that trees of various types can benefit greatly from the nutrients derived from human excreta and the methods of transferring the nutrients can vary somewhat. These vary from direct uptake from an unlined pit, a lined pit, by various methods of urine application and also from the seepage from soakaways linked to septic tanks of various types. The trees, in their early stages and up to at least one year old require protection from animals like goats (if these are common in the area) and most importantly a regular supply of water. It is often best to plant the tree just after the start of the main rains, if water is scarce or if regular watering cannot be guarantees. If trees die, from what ever course, they can be replaced.

Tree fare better if they have been pre-grown in containers just after purchase form the nursery. Here they can be planted in rich soil, water regularly, and when established the growth can be accelerated by the weekly application of diluted urine.


Further publications by Peter Morgan who has published extensively on this topic are available in the SuSanA library:
www.susana.org/en/resources/library?search=morgan

(4)
Chapter 10 of this book:
Strande, L., Ronteltap, M., Brdjanovic, D. (Eds.) (2014). Faecal Sludge Management (FSM) book - Systems Approach for Implementation and Operation. IWA Publishing, UK (ISBN: 9781780404738)
www.susana.org/en/resources/library/details/2100

This is the first book dedicated to faecal sludge management. It compiles the current state of knowledge of this rapidly evolving field, and presents an integrated approach that includes technology, management and planning. It addresses the planning and organization of the entire faecal sludge management service chain, from the collection and transport of sludge and treatment options, to the final end use or disposal of treated sludge. In addition to providing fundamentals and an overview of technologies, the book goes into details of operational, institutional and financial aspects, and provides guidance on how to plan a city-level faecal sludge management project with the involvement of all the stakeholders.


(5)
Wikipedia article:
Excreta reuse: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excreta_reuse


There are oviously many more important documents dealing with this topic.
We invite you to browse the SuSanA library by using the search term "fertiliser" (or fertilizer):
www.susana.org/en/resources/library?search=fertiliser

There is also a library filter function for working group 5 on food security which gives you these results:
www.susana.org/en/resources/library?vbl_...=&vbl_8%5B%5D=42

Regards,
Elisabeth


* Note that the documents dealing specifically with urine as a fertiliser will have an additional entry in the sub-sub-category on urine as a fertiliser.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Tue, 17 Feb 2015 10:27:43 +0000
Re: Can organic fertilizer compete against conventional fertilizer on an open market scenario? - by: sahidul93 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12035 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#12035 Can you please share the documents in details from where we can get technical know-how.
Bangladesh is an agricultural country. We may think about it and I believe it will help our farmers a lot, but they should be understood well the benefits.

Thanks,
Sahidul]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Fri, 13 Feb 2015 05:00:24 +0000
Re: Can organic fertilizer compete against conventional fertilizer on an open market scenario? - by: joeturner http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#11947 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#11947
The phosphorus in the human faeces came from somewhere, and like it or not, the majority ultimately came from rock phosphate. So directly or indirectly all systems of agriculture depend on it.. or to put it another way, global agriculture would grind to a halt without it.

In terms of an individual field, of course, human faeces and urine can help, but even there sometimes it can be difficult to supply enough phosphorus to crops without causing other problems, especially on soils which are low in P.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Sat, 07 Feb 2015 22:07:30 +0000
Re: Can organic fertilizer compete against conventional fertilizer on an open market scenario? - by: christoph http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#11946 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#11946
Third, alternative nutrient sources such as sewage sludge may be considered (Oelofse et al 2013). Indeed, these products are currently not allowed in organic farming but they represent a considerable potential nutrient supply, for P in particular, and we reported very low inflows of nutrients from urban sources to organic farms.


so clearly the shortcome in P was not due to the sludge (although it has to be looked at very carefully what material we are talking about (Urine use, fecal sludge, feces without urine, dried sludge, regular wet sludge))

Christoph]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Sat, 07 Feb 2015 21:51:41 +0000
Re: Can organic fertilizer compete against conventional fertilizer on an open market scenario? - by: joeturner http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#11945 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fertiliser-soil-conditioner-production-of-crops/11890-can-organic-fertilizer-compete-against-conventional-fertilizer-on-an-open-market-scenario?limit=12&start=12#11945 iopscience.iop.org/1748-9326/8/4/044045/article

The issue there is that although the organic agriculture was getting the phosphate from animal manures, the animals which were producing the manure were getting it from crops which were getting rock P inputs.

But I think many soils in many places around the world are short of P, and organic systems will be P limited.]]>
Fertiliser, soil conditioner, production of crops Sat, 07 Feb 2015 21:26:13 +0000