SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Wed, 23 Apr 2014 19:50:46 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: mtfioravanti http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8254 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8254
Those are all questions that we will be able to answer with more precision at the end of the year or by july 2015.

We are analyzing everything: toilet, transport, inputs, fixing, replacements, etc. But we are starting the process of reducing costs through different approaches: materials, suppliers, etc. We are also approaching the local MFI's and realizing alternatives.

The same for the value chain, we are just studying the different and more cost-effective ways to do it. We can now speculate on panoramas, but we will know at the end of the year or by July 2015. Several approaches are under research; we are also developing audio-visual toolkits for installation and for O&M.

We promise you more information in the future!]]>
User interface Thu, 17 Apr 2014 01:08:38 +0000
Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: dorothee.spuhler http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8230 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8230
Is the 700 US$ how your are calculating arriving at 5 cents per use (e.g. 5 people, 4 uses/day) over the 3 years?
Are you expecting any O&M costs -> e.g. for the mechanics of the “flush” system?

In the pre-fabricated units: will the “flushing” system be already installed and pre-assembled or is this something users would need to montage them self after delivering. Or are you thinking of working with a intermediate actor responsible for the “do-it-your-self” (e.g. certified artisans offering toilet installation)?

Kind regards
Dorothee]]>
User interface Mon, 14 Apr 2014 14:55:01 +0000
Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: chuckhenry http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8061 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8061 User interface Tue, 01 Apr 2014 19:55:15 +0000 Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: chuckhenry http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8060 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8060 User interface Tue, 01 Apr 2014 19:50:06 +0000 Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8042 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8042
However this seems to be an example of the small size of the company holding back the overall idea. I hope the exposure through these kind of events will interest someone with more financial reserves to speed up development and bring it to scale.


* Photo of "flushing mechanism" added by moderator:

Urine diverting toilet seat with closing mechanism for faeces hole (note saw dust dispenser at the top of the photo) by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr]]>
User interface Mon, 31 Mar 2014 08:11:29 +0000
Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: mtfioravanti http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8035 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8035
Find attached the interview that SuSanA did to us during the Reinvent The Toilet Fair in India.

It was amazingly motivating being there. We get great connections from visitors, but also potential partnership and alliances with other exhibitors -plus the quick learnings and feedback that you can harvest just during the fair-. I will not say more, since I am sure that after playing the videos comments and questions will come!





Thanks SuSanA team for this!

Marcos


+++++++++++
P.S. Some additional photos from the fair for people who cannot view Youtube videos:

Chuck Henry explaining the Earth Auger toilet exhibit (squatting version), while being filmed by Arno Rosemarin by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr

Urine diverting toilet seat with closing mechanism for faeces hole (note saw dust dispenser at the top of the photo) by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr

Bag to collect compost at the end of the auger (at the back of the photo: toilet seat with sawdust dispenser) by Sustainable sanitation, on Flickr

More photos available in this flickr set:
www.flickr.com/photos/gtzecosan/sets/72157643961207605]]>
User interface Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:33:00 +0000
Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: mtfioravanti http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8034 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#8034
Prototype's final cost and other associated costs (as housing and restrooms accesories -urinals, sink, greywater pipes-) are still under research and development.

To supply the units or let the users doing it by theirselves is a good question. Critical Practices is now working on developing Injection-molded units because it is the most cost-effective way to manufactur the toilets, but the alternative of working in drawings and manuals for a "do it by yourself" is something that I know its under analysis.

The expectation would be that the unit's cost, Ex-Factory, would be between $100 and $200 depending on the prototype (Chuck can explain further about this). Then users can decide on superstructure and accesories, as well as installation. However, we are also developing easier and cost-effective approaches to the superstructure and accesories. One goal -thinkign in the Latin American context-, is that we could have a complete unit, including the Earth Auger toilet, accesories, superstructure, reainwater collection system and greaywater+urine irrigation system for less than $700; that could mean that users do a downpayment of aprox $80 and then monthly payments of $15 to $20 for 3 years. Of course a simpler alternative could be less than $500, including superstructure and basic accesories. We are approaching local MFI's in Ecuador and will have more information during the year.

Marcos]]>
User interface Sun, 30 Mar 2014 20:28:09 +0000
Re: Grant on Advanced Toilet with On-Site Water Recovery (Eawag and EOOS, Switzerland and Austria) – currently testing the blue diversion toilet in urban slums - by: emorgenr http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7964 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7964


and go to www.bluediversiontoilet.com/safe.html for further technical information.

Best regards,

Eberhard


++++++++++
Prof. Dr. Eberhard Morgenroth
ETH Zurich
Chair of Process Engineering in Urban Water Management
Institute of Environmental Engineering (IfU)
www.ifu.ethz.ch/SWW

and

Eawag
Process Engineering (Room BU-B13)
CH-8600 Duebendorf, Switzerland
www.eawag.ch
www.eawag.ch/about/personen/homepages/morgeneb]]>
User interface Tue, 25 Mar 2014 14:34:45 +0000
Re: Grant on Advanced Toilet with On-Site Water Recovery (Eawag and EOOS, Switzerland and Austria) – currently testing the blue diversion toilet in urban slums - by: markokeefe http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7863 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7863 this is the first in a series of blog posts about testing the blue diversion toilet with Sanergy in Mukuru, Nairobi. Thoughts, comments and questions are welcomed.

Cheers,

Mark

www.bluediversiontoilet.com/blog.html]]>
User interface Tue, 18 Mar 2014 07:06:37 +0000
Grant on Advanced Toilet with On-Site Water Recovery (Eawag and EOOS, Switzerland and Austria) – currently testing the blue diversion toilet in urban slums - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7232 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7232
I am glad to hear of the macroorganisms. I think the Oligochaetes may be easier to manage and more acceptable to users and maintenance staff.

I may have jumped to the conclusion of nitrates, but nitrogen in general needs to be removed from the water ... and the Oligochaetes should help with this to some extent.

I do not remember activated carbon being mentioned before, but this is a good option. Is there a reason to not also have a sand filter?

I consider the Blue Diversion Toilet to have enormous application in many situations, including up-scale, urban homes in developed countries. In addition, not all developing countries are stressed for water. For this reason, it would be good to have a couple of different models. A non-fully recycling model could still use filtered hand and anal washwater to flush the system, thus demanding and emitting only tiny amounts of water.

I wish you great success.

Best wishes,
Chris]]>
User interface Tue, 04 Feb 2014 12:12:40 +0000
Grant on Advanced Toilet with On-Site Water Recovery (Eawag and EOOS, Switzerland and Austria) – currently testing the blue diversion toilet in urban slums - by: larsen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7206 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7206
Just a short reply to some of your main points.

We will be testing whether the chlororganic compounds are accumulating or not.

As to the macroorganics: In similar systems, we find that nematodes and oligochaetes play a large role.

As I wrote, we are testing large surfaces for promoting biological growth after the filter. We will not use sand, but activated carbon. There is not enough degradable organic matter to eliminate nitrate at this step, and the water is oxygenated so it would not happen anyway. Nitrate is not really a problem and it does not accumulate.

The Blue Diversion toilet is intended for densely populated urban slums where there is no space for vegetated sand beds and where water will often not be able to infiltrate.


Kind regards
Tove]]>
User interface Mon, 03 Feb 2014 09:46:12 +0000
Grant on Advanced Toilet with On-Site Water Recovery (Eawag and EOOS, Switzerland and Austria) – currently testing the blue diversion toilet in urban slums - by: canaday http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7173 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7173
Thank you for getting back to me, although our perspectives are widely divergent.

What macro organisms will be inside the membrane?

The link you gave does not explain the process of this type of electrolysis. It does however state "Through electrolysis, chlorine is produced and immediately injected into the pool circulation system. These units are messy and produce by-products that are not simple to dispose of."

I think I may have found an explanation of your style of electrolysis, if this is the Cloralcali Process:


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine

You have given no explanation why chlorinated hydrocarbons should not accumulate in the water, growing constantly in concentration in the water the users occupy to wash their hands and genitals. This is the same family of chemicals as DDT and Dioxin, which includes some of the most toxic chemicals known, and they do not biodegrade easily.

The same Wikipedia page states:
"Organochlorine compounds as pollutants

Some organochlorine compounds are serious pollutants. These are produced either as by-products or end products of industrial processes which are persistent in the environment, such as certain chlorinated pesticides and chlorofluorocarbons. Chlorine is added both to pesticides and pharmaceuticals to make the molecules more resistant to enzymatic degradation by bacteria, insects, and mammals, but this property also has the effect of prolonging the residence time of these compounds when they enter the environment." (Or in this case, the recycling aquatic ecosystem of the Blue Diversion.)

I see no response to my suggestion of adding a sand filter (with its helpful biofilm). I think that this would contribute considerably to the visual clarity of the water and the elimination of substances that pass through the membrane (e.g., nitrates), which I think are the most important two factors between the membrane and the user, more than the risk of pathogens swimming upstream (against which a one-way valve could be added).

I suggest you consider making the water recycling optional, with a switch to turn it on. For example, in times and places where there is abundant water, the Blue Diversion could be piped in and the small amount of effluent could go a Vegetated Sand Bed. The same unit, in times of water shortage, could be switched to recycling. One problem would be the stable growth of the beneficial microbes. So it may be simpler to produce 2 models.

I also suggest you consult with several good microbiologists about the chlorine-resistant strains of microbes that may develop.

Good luck. I will stop interrupting you. I think all my points are still valid and they can be reviewed whenever one likes, here on the Forum.

Best wishes,
Chris]]>
User interface Thu, 30 Jan 2014 21:27:55 +0000
Grant on Advanced Toilet with On-Site Water Recovery (Eawag and EOOS, Switzerland and Austria) – currently testing the blue diversion toilet in urban slums - by: larsen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7156 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/2956-grant-on-advanced-toilet-with-on-site-water-recovery-eawag-and-eoos-switzerland-and-austria--currently-testing-the-blue-diversion-toilet-in-urban-slums?limit=12&start=24#7156
Sorry for the late answer, but as I wrote to you personally, I wanted to check a few things before I answered publically. You are raising some very interesting questions with respect to the possible accumulation of chlorinated organic compounds, which I wanted first to discuss with my colleagues.

First of all, however, I would like to emphasize that the water recovery system in Blue Diversion works exactly as you suggest it should: it is a microcosmos of micro and macro organisms, where more than 95 % of the organic material is degraded. The macro organisms keep the filter open and the system is totally self-organizing; all it takes is air for keeping the filter aerobic. Also for this purpose we need electricity; not only for electrolysis. The biofilm on the filter does take part in the degradation and we are not fighting it.

You have some questions with respect to the different types of organic matter in the wastewater. In the water recovery unit of Blue Diversion, these different types are all degraded, exept for the very resistent molecules.

The water filtered in the system is safe, but it may not stay so. Pathogens can enter the system from the tap and the shower head and live on the rest of the organic matter. The water is also not too appeling as it is slightly colored. In order to protect the users against the regrowth of pathogens, we apply electrolysis for the production of chlorine. Chlorine is the gold standard for obtaining hygienic water and it also has the pleasant side effect of removing color from the treated water. This makes it much more appealing to wash your hands with the water.

In principle, we do not see any difference to normal chlorination of drinking water. We do not expect any accumulation of chlorinated compounds, but expect those to be degraded in the biological treatment. This, of course, we will have to prove - thank you for rising the question. With respect to chlorine resistance, the problem in water pipes is the biofilms and there the risk of resistance would be equally high.

In your questions, you indicated that biofilms could be a problem for clogging of the pipes. This is certainly not a problem here. The water is treated to a high degree, but in order to prevent microbial growth, we need to get lower than 10 ng of COD. This is not possible in the type of systems we are discussing here.

I am rather doubtful about the aquarium idea and I do not think it would solve the problem of pathogen regrowth. Reintroducing organic matter does not seem such a good idea, apart from all the practical problems, which you mention yourself.

We are not using a food pump for opening the water tap and have also removed the ones originally in the toilet. Our first field test revealed that small children had problems using the pump. This is also a practical problem of getting the price and the size of the toilet down. In a few weeks, the pictures of the new toilet will go online on www.bluediversiontoilet.com and you will see that the touching point is very small. Combined with hand washing with soap, we hope that this will minimize cross contamination between users (please remember: this is not a public toilet, but a toilet shared by up to 10-12 people, ideally 1-2 families).

Another comment on the foot pump: The ultrafiltration membrane works with gravity and the water has to be pumped up. For the reasons mentioned above, this is now done by an electrical pump and not by a foot pump. Still, however, energy consumption is very low.

You suggest to introduce the mycofilter, which can not survive submerged. We tried out a trickling filter in the beginning of the project, despite the advice from a number of experienced engineers that it would be eaten by flies. They were right, so we are reluctant to try yet another trickling filter.

For the practical information on electrolysis for chlorine formation: This is an old technology used in the chlor-alkali industry for producing chlorine from chloride (see, e.g. wikipedia for an overview). I am surprised that you do not find this technology on the internet; there are so many sites that I hesitate to choose one, but see e.g.
phoenix.about.com/cs/wet/a/saltpool01_2.htm for a common application (producing chlorine from kitchen salt for residential swimming pools). The chemistry of electrolysis is of course complex and the choice e.g. of electrodes, potential applied and distance between the electrodes all influence the result. We have optimized a commercial system for very low energy consumption, but there is still work to do to lower the costs of the system.

In order to get the toilet out as soon as possible, we have already industrialized the water wall. This means that there is little room for changes, although we are experimenting with some additional surfaces for decreasing the organic matter in the effluent even more. However, we are operating the water recovery system without any sludge removal (another advantage of the system from the point of view of maintenance), which leaves relatively little scope for further biological degradation.

We do of course hope that other people will help further develop the system, but at the moment we concentrate on understanding the user experience and we look very much forward to the coming field tests in Nairobi, which will be conducted in cooperation with Sanergy.

I hope I succeeded in answering your questions. Thank you for your interest

Kind regards
Tove]]>
User interface Wed, 29 Jan 2014 10:50:23 +0000
Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: ooaluko http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#7017 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#7017 I am in love with the innovation shown in this research.
I am currently working on waterless toilets piloting in a main market in Nigeria and will love to have all inputs to make it a success.
we have done the baseline and knew the preferences of the market users and had to develop a system where seperate facilities will be provided for male and female, in addition to some add-ons requested by the female respondents, during the qualitative data collection.

However, my main challenge is how do we limit odour to the barest minimum, reduce sight of faeces by toilet users, if possible and turn the end products, faeces and urine into organic fertiliser in a collaborative effort.

in addition, the 4-compartment units (4 each for male and female) is planned for privatization and i am concerned about success since the NGO that engaged our services is looking to market and replicate good practices.

I therefore request for support in this venture from group members.

Femi Aluko
Department of Community Health
Obafemi Awolowo University, Ile Ife,
Nigeria.]]>
User interface Thu, 16 Jan 2014 11:15:52 +0000
Re: The Earth Auger Toilet: Innovation in Waterless Sanitation (Fundacion In Terris, Ecuador) - by: AquaVerde http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#6994 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/106-user-interface/4079-the-earth-auger-toilet-urine-diverting-composting-toilet-fundacion-in-terris-ecuador-large-scale-demonstrations-300-toilets-to-be-installed-in-ecuador?limit=12&start=24#6994
Why not teaming up with the South African Developer's of the first conveyer (auger) toilet (a non UD)? So many not written down and informal good and bad experiences made could be incorporated in your new R&D...

All the Best
Detlef]]>
User interface Wed, 15 Jan 2014 08:38:06 +0000