SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Tue, 25 Apr 2017 00:49:32 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Large Capacity Building Project in sanitation (UNESCO-IHE, The Netherlands and Sub-Saharan Africa and SE Asia) - by: jonpar http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4513-large-capacity-building-project-in-sanitation-unesco-ihe-the-netherlands-and-sub-saharan-africa-and-se-asia#20864 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4513-large-capacity-building-project-in-sanitation-unesco-ihe-the-netherlands-and-sub-saharan-africa-and-se-asia#20864
I understand that this programme has now finished.

It would be really appreciated if you could encourage your students to share their main findings and recommendations from their research with the SuSanA community.

You might also want to select those that you consider to have the most significant/influential findings and organise a webinar where they can present their work.

best regards,

Jonathan]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Wed, 15 Mar 2017 19:33:24 +0000
Re: South African Sanitation Technology Demonstration Programme (SASTEP) - BMGF-DST Partnership - by: fcharlesc http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/8209-south-african-sanitation-technology-demonstration-programme-sastep-reinvented-toilet-technology-demonstration-and-roadmap-to-commercialization?limit=12&start=12#20422 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/8209-south-african-sanitation-technology-demonstration-programme-sastep-reinvented-toilet-technology-demonstration-and-roadmap-to-commercialization?limit=12&start=12#20422
I have been working around a similar concept but this one include both the superstructure and the semi-attached slab to facilitate emptying. However funds limit has been the main constraint. I will be able to share a full design once I finalise it]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Sun, 12 Feb 2017 13:27:29 +0000
Re: South African Sanitation Technology Demonstration Programme (SASTEP) - BMGF-DST Partnership - by: BurundiWASH http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/8209-south-african-sanitation-technology-demonstration-programme-sastep-reinvented-toilet-technology-demonstration-and-roadmap-to-commercialization?limit=12&start=12#20387 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/8209-south-african-sanitation-technology-demonstration-programme-sastep-reinvented-toilet-technology-demonstration-and-roadmap-to-commercialization?limit=12&start=12#20387
Do you have any written documents, results, learned lessons from the technology you can share now?

Warm regards
Nyamiye Hermenegilde]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Thu, 09 Feb 2017 01:06:20 +0000
Re: Bill Gates blog posts: This Ingenious Machine Turns Feces Into Drinking Water (Omni-processor by Janicki to process sludge) - now in Dakar, Senegal - by: jbe http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20380 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20380
I am an engineer and manager for Janicki Bioenergy. Elisabeth reached out to us to see if we might be able to participate in the discussion here. Due to time and length considerations, we couldn't respond to every point and question, but we did want to speak to some of the larger and/or recurring ones.


Regarding the energy balance question/claims that the system requires external energy:
In most cases, the machine will process fecal sludge that has undergone some form of initial dewatering, either mechanical or passive. The pilot unit in Dakar, for example, gets its sludge from drying beds. Kevin is correct in saying that the machine cannot process exclusively raw septage (% total solids at 3-4%)—this is a thermodynamic impossibility (assuming we want the plant to be self-sustaining). The machine was not designed for this or marketed in a way (to our knowledge) that suggested this. However, the technology was designed to be able to process raw septage with a supplementary, dry fuel source (e.g. MSW, wood products, certain plastics, etc.). The machine’s flexibility to be able to process a variety of fuel sources is what drives the “Omni” in its name—perhaps it’s a misnomer as some have argued here, but that’s a philosophical discussion about product naming rather than a technical one. To process exclusively fecal sludge, our S200 machine requires a solids content of ~15-18% as some have calculated here—though that is of course dependent on heating value of the dried solids, which varies site to site. If you’d like me to explain the mass-energy balance/thermodynamics in more detail, I can do so (though it seems like everyone understands the concept, they were just approaching the calculations with different assumptions). In short: no, an external power source is not required.

A diesel genset is required only for the start-up process until the boiler begins producing steam with energy from the dried fuel. Once the steam engine reaches steady state, the plant’s control system automatically shuts down the diesel genset. The amount of power produced by the plant does exceed the loads of the plant itself (there seems to be some skepticism about this)—for the S200 machine, for example, gross power production is ~300 kw and the plant consumes only 50 kW.

Regarding the argument that technicians in developing countries won’t be able to operate or maintain this plant:
We would refute this, and would argue that our experience with the pilot unit is evidence to the contrary. That’s not to say that this process was without its complications or that our experience in Dakar is representative of every potential context. Beyond just acting like a proof of technology prototype, the pilot plant was also implemented so that we could begin to understand the “soft” issues (e.g. navigating cultural and language differences, understanding local politics, training technicians, establishing maintenance plans, etc.). These lessons, perhaps moreso than the technical ones, have been incredibly valuable. That being said, despite the normal growing pains, the pilot unit is now processing sludge every day in Dakar and does so operated exclusively by Senegalese technicians without the on-site presence of Janicki Bioenergy staff. We offer remote support and operation as needed, but that’s it. The plant is heavily automated, as many of Janicki Bioenergy’s engineers come from a controls and automation background; starting the plant requires pushing a single button on an HMI screen. Maintenance is of course a reality, and that’s where training, good organization, and a robust maintenance plan comes in. Regarding parts: critical spare parts are managed in a spare parts inventory. Part/supplier selection decisions were made during design with global distribution networks in mind (i.e. maximizing availability and accessibility of parts): for the pilot unit, for example, many maintenance parts can be and are purchased in Senegal.

Regarding the machine’s intent:
There was a debate about the purpose of the machine. The Omni Processor was designed first and foremost to process fecal sludge in a manner that has 100% pathogen kill and no unwanted byproducts (e.g. effluent that requires additional treatment). Furthermore, it was important that an economic incentive existed to operate the plant. If it cost significant money to operate, then it obviously wouldn’t compete very well with the free option of just dumping waste in waterways, regardless of health considerations.

We knew that, while processing the sludge, we needed to generate byproducts that were actually useful: power, water (of some desired quality), and ash. How do we turn something that’s traditionally viewed as “waste” into a resource? That’s what the Omni Processor set out to do.

The psychology concerns raised here about drinking water derived from waste are no doubt real, but it should be noted that the water purification process of the plant is highly modular and quality can therefore be taken to whatever makes sense for the customer’s business model (e.g. agricultural quality, distilled water, etc.). In other words, the plant doesn’t have to generate potable, drinking water. In fact, the current plan for the first S200 plant is to not bring the water all the way to drinking standards due to the customer’s business model. Business models vary drastically case by case due to variability in things like tipping fees, price of electricity, and the usefulness of water. The plant’s modularity enables flexibility to this variation by allowing each output (and even input parameters) to be optimized based on the particular use case.

There have been a number of comments claiming that this technology does not solve the entire sanitation problem—specifically that it doesn’t solve the collection and transportation issue. We would agree, and hope that no implication was made that it could. We do hope that our technology incentivizes the creation of solutions to those issues though. It’s unlikely that any one technology will solve the entire gamut (fingers crossed, though), and we imagine that a comprehensive solution would involve an interdisciplinary team and approach involving multiple companies, technologies, NGOs, governments, legislation, and other relevant factors. However, we would disagree with the implication that, since it doesn’t solve the entire chain of sanitation issues (from collection to disposal), the technology is without value and unnecessary. It’s a piece of the very large and complex puzzle, which so many of you have dedicated your lives to solving
______________


We hope that clears some things up (or at least adds more fuel for the discussion). It's nice to see such a passionate discussion about the technology with detailed, critical thinking.

EDIT: Elisabeth requested some photos of the pilot unit in Dakar. I've attached a handful.]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Tue, 07 Feb 2017 20:38:03 +0000
Re: Drinking Water From Feces - Bill Gates blog post: This Ingenious Machine Turns Feces Into Drinking Water (sewage sludge, Janicki Omniprocessor) - by: dmrobbins10 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20093 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20093
Thermal systems for waste co-treatment have limited applicability in countries like the Philippines, which has a ban on thermal processing of waste. But for counties like China, where thermal processes for waste treatment is the norm, the applicability is great. Many of the waste incinerators that serve small towns and cities in China are old and do not provide adequate combustion, resulting in a host of toxic materials being discharged. Upgrading those systems with properly designed thermal systems that accept both fecal and solid waste streams could be a winning strategy for driving measurable environmental health improvements.

I hope that this important research and commercialization efforts in thermal processes for fecal sludge treatment continues. My guess is that they would be very cost competitive with other mechanized technologies like screw presses or activated sludge systems, or lagoons or wetlands when the cost of the land is included.]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Thu, 12 Jan 2017 22:18:04 +0000
Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet (Cranfield University, UK) - latest results and publications in 2016 - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20026 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20026
The membrane will be modular. However, we would be nervous about installing the toilet without the membrane as the untreated liquid component will still be pretty nasty - basically feacally contaminated urine, which could cause significant groundwater contamination, depending on the local conditions. Our energy modelling suggests we will be able to get enough energy out of the faces to enable the membrane processes.

The membranes are hydrophobic so fouling is not too much of a problem (a paper on this is in preparation).

Alison]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 09 Jan 2017 12:36:13 +0000
Re: Bill Gates blog posts: This Ingenious Machine Turns Feces Into Drinking Water (Omni-processor by Janicki to process sludge) - now in Dakar, Senegal - by: mwaniki http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20024 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20024
The way I see it, African cities don’t need machines to convert sludge into drinking water. What is needed is the affordable systems to properly dispose off the fecal waste due to fast expansion of informal settlements.

Priority sanitation options open to programmes for these conditions could be public health and environmental outcomes, financial investment arrangements and partnerships.And may be technologies to convert wastewater for agriculture.And that could be development for the people.

Regards / Mwaniki]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 09 Jan 2017 12:22:52 +0000
Re: Bill Gates blog posts: This Ingenious Machine Turns Feces Into Drinking Water (Omni-processor by Janicki to process sludge) - now in Dakar, Senegal - by: pkjha http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20020 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20020 Development of technology is one part. Its applicability is another and important part. A technology has least importance, if not applicable due to social, environmental or financial factors.

Pawan]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 09 Jan 2017 07:03:22 +0000
Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet (Cranfield University, UK) - latest results and publications in 2016 - by: JackAqucell http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20018 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20018 The idea of turning human waste into usable water, dry fertilizer and energy is great and the prototype of your design is beautiful. Congratulations!
As a membrane manufacturer, I agree with what Ecowater concerns about, the energy cost.
Very few water would go through the membrane fiber unless there is a pressure to force them to. To maintain the pressure consumes ennergy.
I see Alison and her team has been working on it to find the proper "selectivity". I think it might depend more on field data and sometimes, individual cases may differ a lot from each other.
Then it comes to the pollution resistance ability of the membrane itself. For a daily device for everyone, the least troublsome way is that it can clean itself when the fouling against the membrane module reaches a redline and we press a button for it to clean itself for two minutes and then it could go for another week. During this week, we may call and wait till the technician to arrive and replace it with the regenerated membrane module.
The called technician could be delayed by everything while the call of nature is absolutely not.
We have projects in Cambodia for membrane treated drinking water. The energy problem is tackled with bicycle generator.
Membrane technology opens a new gate to solve clean drinking water crisis and I'm happy to see that Alison and her team is working with it on human waste problem. I would be glad to share what we found in our application practice for this great idea.
Good luck!
Jack]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 09 Jan 2017 02:13:17 +0000
Re: Reply: PhD Scholarship: Field testing a novel waterless toilet - by: JKMakowka http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20017 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20017 Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 09 Jan 2017 01:46:34 +0000 Re: Bill Gates blog posts: This Ingenious Machine Turns Feces Into Drinking Water (Omni-processor by Janicki to process sludge) - now in Dakar, Senegal - by: scottchen http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20016 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20016 I really wish the forum had a Chinese version so that more and more Chinese know what we are talking about.
best wishes
Scott]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 09 Jan 2017 01:40:03 +0000
Re: Reply: PhD Scholarship: Field testing a novel waterless toilet - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20015 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20015 You might have overlooked Alison's response to your earlier request. She wrote on 6 December 2016:
Prince and Orchha - We're still in the development stage but I hope we'd be able to brign it to Kenya, Uganda and India in the future.

So I think you still need to be a little bit patient.
Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Sun, 08 Jan 2017 20:35:18 +0000
Re: Bill Gates blog posts: This Ingenious Machine Turns Feces Into Drinking Water (Omni-processor by Janicki to process sludge) - now in Dakar, Senegal - by: mwaniki http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20013 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11546-bill-gates-blog-posts-this-ingenious-machine-turns-feces-into-drinking-water-omni-processor-by-janicki-to-process-sludge-now-in-dakar-senegal?limit=12&start=48#20013
Eng. Mughal raised the question of cost of this technology 2 years ago. The term expensive is relative. I think the people at Bill Gates Foundation are aware of what you have just raised but I guess they want to achieve the tech in a different approach at all costs, regardless of the expense, effort or sacrifice involved.

Warren Buffet was once reported as saying ‘Price is what you pay. Value is what you get’.

Best regards / Mwaniki]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Sun, 08 Jan 2017 20:16:28 +0000
Reply: PhD Scholarship: Field testing a novel waterless toilet - by: prince http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20009 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#20009 Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Sun, 08 Jan 2017 04:28:42 +0000 Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet (Cranfield University, UK) - latest results and publications in 2016 - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#19979 http://forum.susana.org/component/kunena/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/16569-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-latest-results-and-publications-since-2016?limit=12&start=12#19979
Just to note that's its not an MBR process - more similar to pervaporation.]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Wed, 04 Jan 2017 10:28:38 +0000