SuSanA - Forum Kunena Site Syndication http://forum.susana.org/ Sun, 21 Dec 2014 20:08:29 +0000 Kunena 1.6 http://forum.susana.org/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/icons/rss.png SuSanA - Forum http://forum.susana.org/ en-gb Re: Sustainable Decentralized Wastewater Management in Developing Countries (AIT, Thailand) - by: denniskl http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4750-sustainable-decentralized-wastewater-management-in-developing-countries-ait-thailand?limit=12&start=12#11409 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4750-sustainable-decentralized-wastewater-management-in-developing-countries-ait-thailand?limit=12&start=12#11409
Systems may seem similar (to me, as an outsider they do) but clever tech is not the issue anyway - it's suitability for purpose and culture, mass distribution and high volume usage uptake via even cleverer marketing, financial support systems, entrepreneurial models and distribution, installation, servicing and maintenance systems.

If it was just a matter of the tech, problem would have been solved already - we have more than enough low, medium and high tech toilet systems to eliminate OD and the diseases and problems that come with it - but we still have some 2B defecating in the fields.

Why?

Because in a world where we can distribute mobile phones and air time credit to the furthest reaches of the globe, petrol can get wherever it's needed for motorbikes and machinery, beer companies can display their signs and their products in every tiny shop, we continue to insist on toilets for the poor as some sort of public charity programme.

Our efforts will be far better served in marketing toilet systems, and the lifestyles that come with them, as aspirational lifestyle choices - and have the demand come from the market ("pull" marketing).

Rather than the current system where 500 toilet system inventors and another 1,000 NGO's beg poor people to "please take our system" when they see no need, have no problem with OD (no awareness of the problems) and just don't care (Push marketing).

But they will walk as far as they need to get air time!!


Elisabeth, I will start a new thread on this topic .........]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Thu, 18 Dec 2014 22:13:33 +0000
Re: Sustainable Decentralized Wastewater Management in Developing Countries (AIT, Thailand) - by: Thammarat http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4750-sustainable-decentralized-wastewater-management-in-developing-countries-ait-thailand?limit=12&start=12#11401 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4750-sustainable-decentralized-wastewater-management-in-developing-countries-ait-thailand?limit=12&start=12#11401
Our technology solution is distinctly different and inventive. It is a technology solution and not a mere hydrocylone unit. Allow me to note that the comprehensive solution includes a toilet pot/pan for rural/urban poor specifically designed for pour flush, solid–liquid separation system and a septic system operated under thermophilic conditions –all working in synergistic manner. Wish to underline that the system operates with a pour flush in tandem with the specially designed toilet pot and thermophilic septic system.

We have great respect for the forum and our understanding and belief is that this forum is for knowledge dissemination, networking and enabling people to use right knowledge, at the right time and in the right context.

We have been developing appropriate naturally acceptable and technically sustainable (NATS) sanitation technology for the bottom billion poors and community in need. Our sanitation solution is designed for pour flush system with as low water consumption as possible considering water scarcity and challenging conditions poor/underprivileged encounter.]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Thu, 18 Dec 2014 12:56:10 +0000
Re: Bokashi and Sanitation? - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11346-bokashi-and-sanitation#11355 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11346-bokashi-and-sanitation#11355
I would also like to understand better what you have in mind when you say "Bokashi and sanitation"? And there is hardly any term that hasn't yet been mentioned on this forum...! Which search function did you use? I put the search term in the field above (and in the advanced search) and found 4 posts which had mentioned bokashi, mostly in connection with the Terra Preta discussions.

There is also this thread here where Guillaume from Burundi/Rwanda spoke about it in one sentence:
forum.susana.org/forum/categories/17-fer...rit-and-demerit#8216

For revitalization of biological processes in the soil, improvement of soil structure, achieving a balanced nutritional status in the soil, and fostering disease suppressiveness, we experimented with different ways of making compost / managing biowastes (i.e., aerobic vs. anaerobic/bokashi; fermentation of food waste with EM followed by aerobic composting then vermicomposting; incorporation of rock dust and/or biochar and/or gypsum).


Perhaps you could clarify your question and then send him a note via the internal messenging system to "ping" him in case has further insights on this topic?

Hope this helps a little bit.

Regards,
Elisabeth

P.S. Thank you, by the way, for telling us about your company with compost toilets at festivals in Germany, very interesting (see his post from 22 Nov. 2014: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/170-pu...2&start=12#11094)! Good luck with it!]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Fri, 12 Dec 2014 21:15:17 +0000
Re: Bokashi and Sanitation? - by: joeturner http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11346-bokashi-and-sanitation#11353 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11346-bokashi-and-sanitation#11353
There are very few academic studies which give it (Bokashi) any credibility at all.]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Fri, 12 Dec 2014 16:14:32 +0000
Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet (Cranfield University, UK) - new phase of funding until Jan. 2016 - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#11351 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#11351
Thanks for your questions and your honesty. It is much appreciated and I do share some of your concerns! I've just updated our blog with some of our latest development activities which might interest you.

denniskl wrote:
I see that the grant period was extended to March 2014; I went to your website but didn't really get a sense of where you are, progress-wise.

are you field trialling yet? if so, where and what results?


Our phase 1 grant finished in March 2014, and our Phase 2 grant started in September 2014. We decided (together with BMGF) to not move into field trials yet but to spend some more time developing prototypes in the lab. However, we have a team traveling to Ghana in January to get a better understanding of target users' needs.

denniskl wrote:
and did you sort out the likely production costs?

I acknowledge your financial modelling sees a less than 5c per day per user outcome, but the sheer tech involved frightens me:) from the capex (initial purchase / installation), a transportation and installation viewpoint and an ongoing maintenance / servicing / operational cost perspective


Yes, 5c per day is our target but we're still at a relatively early stage of development. However, we're looking at using off the shelf components where possible to keep costs down.

denniskl wrote:
Membranes, beads, scrapers, rollers - really? in the remote communities of developing countries? (Note my bias here?

The servicing, spare parts, harsh environments, damage from floods, and just general wear and tear must see high servicing requirements (not to mention the possible damage en-route, incorrect installation and usage, etc).

Has the team explored these areas of actual implementation?


Our target market is not remote areas, rather urban areas. The toilets will be rented to the households and the rental cost will include servicing by a local technician who will also be on hand to deal with any faults.

denniskl wrote:
I think your design is wonderful and in certain settings (even developed countries) it looks a viable alternative to minimise waste of treated water and even re-use of nutrients (can you re-use faces after you polymer wrap them?) but as a solution for an outlier village with 100% OD, I have to say I'd be more than a little sceptical (as I am with most of the Gates design winners, so it's not just yours) (Bias rears its head again here:)


Just one point here - we're not developing the polymer wrap any more - we'll now be combusting the dried faces directly in the toilet, as explained in an earlier blog post.an earlier blog post

Hope this helps, do keep asking questions!]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Fri, 12 Dec 2014 14:48:52 +0000
Bokashi and Sanitation? - by: Kevinkuhn http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11346-bokashi-and-sanitation#11346 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/11346-bokashi-and-sanitation#11346
I did a search about Bokashi in this forum, but could´t find any elaborate information on the topic.

Actually the question that I have is, if there has been any trials/ case studies regarding making Bokashi out of fecal matter? The system of Bokashi seems to me like less complex system than Terra Preta, but with similar results. It pasteurizes the material and can generate a fertile matter.

I wonder why I can´t find any information online about it and I am very thankful for any papers or links.

Best regards
Kevin]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Fri, 12 Dec 2014 13:24:50 +0000
Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet (Cranfield University, UK) - new phase of funding until Jan. 2016 - by: denniskl http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#11328 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#11328
FOR FULL DISCLOSURE - I should advise that I am not a fan of the Gates "Redesign the Toilet" competition - I felt it was biased towards "sexy" designs rather than actually useful ones, so the below may come across as biased (and it probably is); I leave you to decide whether to answer:)

Not politically correct to be anti-the millions of $$ being shovelled to toilet designers by the Gates foundation, but there you are...

But notwithstanding that, I have some specific questions Alison if you don't mind

Q's;

I see that the grant period was extended to March 2014; I went to your website but didn't really get a sense of where you are, progress-wise.

are you field trialling yet? if so, where and what results?

and did you sort out the likely production costs?

I acknowledge your financial modelling sees a less than 5c per day per user outcome, but the sheer tech involved frightens me:) from the capex (initial purchase / installation), a transportation and installation viewpoint and an ongoing maintenance / servicing / operational cost perspective

Membranes, beads, scrapers, rollers - really? in the remote communities of developing countries? (Note my bias here?

The servicing, spare parts, harsh environments, damage from floods, and just general wear and tear must see high servicing requirements (not to mention the possible damage en-route, incorrect installation and usage, etc).

Has the team explored these areas of actual implementation?

I think your design is wonderful and in certain settings (even developed countries) it looks a viable alternative to minimise waste of treated water and even re-use of nutrients (can you re-use faces after you polymer wrap them?) but as a solution for an outlier village with 100% OD, I have to say I'd be more than a little sceptical (as I am with most of the Gates design winners, so it's not just yours) (Bias rears its head again here:)]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Thu, 11 Dec 2014 01:01:47 +0000
Re: Vortex bioreactors for the processing of contaminated wastewater (Plymouth Marine Laboratory, UK) - by: mikeallen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4152-vortex-bioreactors-for-the-processing-of-contaminated-wastewater-plymouth-marine-laboratory-uk?limit=12&start=12#11304 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4152-vortex-bioreactors-for-the-processing-of-contaminated-wastewater-plymouth-marine-laboratory-uk?limit=12&start=12#11304
authors.elsevier.com/a/1QA7V_oMrMbx4y

Manuscript 3 available on PlosOne from December 23rd.

Journal of Water Process Engineering
April 2015, Vol.5:6–14, doi:10.1016/j.jwpe.2014.10.010
Swirl flow bioreactor containing dendritic copper-containing alginate beads: A potential rapid method for the eradication of Escherichia coli from waste water streams
Simon F. ThomasPaul RooksFabian RudinNeil CagneyStavroula BalabaniSov AtkinsonPaul GoddardRachel M. BransgrovePaul T. MasonMichael J. Allen

Abstract
Despite the increasing use of Decentralised Waste Water Systems (DEWATS) in the developing world, which effectively dewater sludge, the problem of preventing the pathogen-laden water produced by these systems from re-entering the food chain constitutes a continuing burden on developing countries, which hinders subsequent advancements. We report on a swirl flow reactor generating high mixing areas which in conjunction with Cu/alginate beads effectively reduces Escherichia coli numbers by five orders of magnitude in 10 min. The system is simple, low cost, portable and modular; it can be assembled with simple plastic plumbing parts available in most areas and, once further developed, may represent a useful adjunct for both existing and new DEWATS facilities.]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 08 Dec 2014 19:51:23 +0000
Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet - by: denniskl http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#11290 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#11290
I think you were due to field test in 2014?]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Sun, 07 Dec 2014 06:23:06 +0000
Re: Vortex bioreactors for the processing of contaminated wastewater (Plymouth Marine Laboratory, UK) - by: mikeallen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4152-vortex-bioreactors-for-the-processing-of-contaminated-wastewater-plymouth-marine-laboratory-uk?limit=12&start=12#11196 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4152-vortex-bioreactors-for-the-processing-of-contaminated-wastewater-plymouth-marine-laboratory-uk?limit=12&start=12#11196
Quick update:

Swirl flow bioreactor containing dendritic copper-containing alginate beads: A potential rapid method for the eradication of Escherichia coli from waste water streams. Thomas et al, In press @ Journal of Water Process Engineering.

A comparison between ultraviolet disinfection and copper alginate beads within a
vortex bioreactor for the deactivation of bacteria in simulated waste streams with high
levels of colour, humic acid and suspended solids. Thomas et al, In press @ PLoSOne

You can also follow the group via Twitter now:
twitter.com/mike_j_allen

I'll post regular updates on the progress of various lab projects there, and links to the articles above when they made publically available.

Cheers
Mike]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 01 Dec 2014 10:48:31 +0000
Re: Sustainable Decentralized Wastewater Management in Developing Countries (AIT, Thailand) - by: aquatron http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4750-sustainable-decentralized-wastewater-management-in-developing-countries-ait-thailand?limit=12&start=12#10809 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4750-sustainable-decentralized-wastewater-management-in-developing-countries-ait-thailand?limit=12&start=12#10809
I'm quite surprised to see an new invention that is a copy of our over 30 years old product...
You can find an old video on the Aquatron separator here:



++++
Note by moderator:

More information about this Swedish product was discussed here on the forum:
www.forum.susana.org/forum/categories/10...mpany-aquatron#10818]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 03 Nov 2014 16:11:21 +0000
Re: Vortex bioreactors for the processing of contaminated wastewater (Plymouth Marine Laboratory, UK) - by: mikeallen http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4152-vortex-bioreactors-for-the-processing-of-contaminated-wastewater-plymouth-marine-laboratory-uk?limit=12&start=12#10606 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/4152-vortex-bioreactors-for-the-processing-of-contaminated-wastewater-plymouth-marine-laboratory-uk?limit=12&start=12#10606
As our 12 month project draws to a close, I thought I'd update you on progress.

Firstly, we've published the first part of the work describing the alginate beads and their bactericidal activity.
You can check out the paper here:
www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10....journal.pone.0096225

There's another manuscript on the bioreactor itself currently undergoing revisions at Journal of Water Process Engineering.

There's a second manuscript under review at PLoSOne on comparing the bioreactor with UV.

And a third manuscript describing the results from our field trials is currently under review at Nature Science Communications.

In the end we managed to get our reactors to:
  • Chris Buckley's group in South Africa.
  • Andrew Whitesell's group at Cascade Designs in Seattle.
  • Bincy Baby at Eram Scientific in Kerala, India.
  • Christoph Platzer in South America.
  • And Ajeet Oak in Pune, India. We visited Ajeet's site for a week, earlier in the year to do our own field testing. It worked really well, we were all really happy with the performance of the system. The beads are letting us down a little, but we always knew they would need proper development in the future. The feedback on performance from partners has been really useful to us (Ajeet and Andrew's team are co-authors on the field work manuscript), and hopefully in the future we'll be able to go back to the partners with an updated and improved active agent.



That's all for now!
Cheers
Mike]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 20 Oct 2014 13:23:56 +0000
Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet (Cranfield University, UK) - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#10260 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#10260
In our latest conversations with BMGF they really liked our small footprint aspirational concept:

1.bp.blogspot.com/-DfAaT4p68uI/U58oK4X1U.../20140609_102615.jpg

But they didn't like our plan to collect the solids weekly. So they suggested we pair with another grantee who could help us process the solids in the toilet, hence the link to RTI. With onsite solids processing there's no need for the coating so we're not taking this any further. We'll need to work hard to keep is both safe and cheap. It will operate as a batch process. So we'll automate it to operate when it's not being used. And we're going to gauge responses from households in Ghana about how they feel about having such a unit in their homes, as well as feedback from, RTI's ongoing field trial in India:

abettertoilet.org/field-work/

Hope that answers your question, do keep asking them!

Alison]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 22 Sep 2014 13:53:30 +0000
Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet (Cranfield University, UK) - by: muench http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#10258 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#10258
Congratulations on receiving this next phase of funding! That's great news for you and your team!

Can you tell us the size of this new grant (it is not yet visible in the BMGF grant database)?

And I read on your blog:
The biggest change is that rather than coating the dried solids, we're now looking to combust them in the toilet using a gasifier - we'll be working with RTI * who are already testing their gasifier in India. This changes the energy balance of the toilet, for example we can now consider recovering the water using a heat exchanger instead of the beads, and we won't have to use the bicycle power generator or hand crank to power the membrane processes.

* The RTI project is described here on the forum: forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-pr...tional-usa-and-india

Could you tell us a bit more why you abandoned the coating and bead ideas?
And are you going to try and embed the gasifier in your small toilet model? I would find that a bit scary to be sitting on something that operates at high heat and with combustion... Would a unit like that really make sense at household level with all the associated safety issues? And wouldn't it increase the costs a lot?

Regards,
Elisabeth]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Mon, 22 Sep 2014 12:33:15 +0000
Re: The Nano Membrane Toilet (Cranfield University, UK) - by: AParker http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#10245 http://forum.susana.org/forum/categories/105-processing-technologies-for-excreta-or-faecal-sludge/3409-the-nano-membrane-toilet-cranfield-university-uk-new-phase-of-funding-until-jan-2016?limit=12&start=36#10245 [Start of Page 4 of the discussion]


We are delighted to announce that the Nano Membrane Toilet has received further funding from the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation to continue the development of the toilet. This next phase will take us to January 2016 when we will have a prototype ready for field testing. We're really excited to be starting work again after a 6 month break.

Read more about our plans on our blog:
nanomembranetoilet.blogspot.co.uk/2014/0...toilet-receives.html

As ever, happy to answer your questions and receive your feedback on this forum.]]>
Processing technologies for excreta or faecal sludge Fri, 19 Sep 2014 15:35:48 +0000